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bighungrysteve
November 10th, 2009, 11:09
I don't know if this has been asked before - if it has, then I'm sorry! I'm having real difficulty distinguishing meaning between these three phrases as they are being introduced in the JET intermediate correspondence course. For example, what is the difference between:

雨が降っているため、試合がない。
雨がふっているので、試合がない。
雨がふっているものだから、試合がない。

As far as I can tell, they all mean 'because it is raining, there isn't a match'.

I tried asking some of the people in the BOE about it in my best broken Japanese (back to back office days make Steve a dull boy) but I didn't really understand their explanation. Care to help? I'm sure it's something very obvious that will have me slapping my forehead as soon as I realise.

UPGRAYEDD
November 10th, 2009, 15:13
JGram - The Japanese Grammar database (http://dev.jgram.org/pages/viewList.php?lv=3)

Happy hunting

bighungrysteve
November 11th, 2009, 01:10
Thanks for the reply, that website certainly seems very useful. However, the explanations it gives for the three expressions are basically the same - 'because'. This doesn't enlighten me any more as to the more specific/semantic differences that they possess...

Mr. Plainview
November 11th, 2009, 10:39
Thanks for the reply, that website certainly seems very useful. However, the explanations it gives for the three expressions are basically the same - 'because'. This doesn't enlighten me any more as to the more specific/semantic differences that they possess...

ok, i'll take a whack at it. I'm no hyakuman, but to me the feeling of each seems to be:


ために for that reason specifically / as a result of that thing...

ので given that / that being the case...

ものだから the reason being... (sounds like you're working it out in your head, haven't thought it all the way through yet...)

Virus FM
November 11th, 2009, 14:47
Out of my JLPT2 study book:

ものだから expresses a reason. What follows will not be an order or expression of intent. Often used for excuses.

I have nothing concrete for the other two, but what Mr.Plainview said sounds right.

Don't sweat the small stuff right now, go for breadth now and depth later.

krazie85
November 11th, 2009, 20:30
I personally take ものですから as a way of giving a reason for something that is not known or physically seen by the listener. So in this case the reason (the rain) prob was not seen or known of by the listener.

I have no book to cite just observation from my experiences speaking and listening to Japanese.

UPGRAYEDD
November 11th, 2009, 23:08
ものだから - Used when the reason is personal (the jet book example is wrong, get a real grammar book). Used heavily when giving personal excuses. Type of sentence would be,

Yo why you late today?
Because I didn't set my alarm.

My little sister is getting married so I need to go to my hometown.

I get nervous around my boss because I don't know how to use keigo.
I don't know how to use keigo so I get nervous around my boss.

I am new at this company so there are many things I don't understand.
Because I am new here etc....

ものだから also もんで in casual speach.

ために - Excuses. Use when the reason is unusual. Don't use for normal or expected events. Used mostly in writing.

Why are you late today?
I'm late because there was a blizzard and the train was slow!

Why isn't Steven graduating?
Because he never attended class.

I ran out of time because there were too many questions on this test.

ので - Reason (node) Result. Kind of simple.

It's cold so could you please turn on the heater?
I'm thinking about it so could you please wait a little more.
Tomorrow is a holiday so my friends and I will go to the movies.
Because tomorrow is a holiday my friends and I will go to the movies.

bighungrysteve
November 13th, 2009, 15:21
Thanks for the very comprehensive replies guys. Upgrayedd, that was my example as I was unsure of the distinction between the three phrases. And while it's probably not something I should really be concerned about at this level of Japanese study, I like semantics and grammar and other nerdy things...

Thanks again!