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Waldroon
December 25th, 2009, 12:34
お先に失礼しますといった後でアパートに帰る
Does this mean:

After (I) say 'excuse me for leaving first', I will return (to my) apartment.

kamukamuume
December 25th, 2009, 13:16
お先に失礼しますといった後でアパートに帰る
Does this mean:

After (I) say 'excuse me for leaving first', I will return (to my) apartment.

Japanese isn't as specific as English, so it relies a lot on context. There's no subject stated, so it's just like "after say 'shitsurei shimasu,' return to apartment." It could be something you do every day, or it could be something you intend on doing today. Or it could be something about someone else.

Waldroon
December 25th, 2009, 13:29
I was wondering more about if it was grammatically correct, although I understand that with present-tense of most verbs it's not always clear if you're doing it now or in the future.

jandek
December 25th, 2009, 16:29
お先に失礼しますといった後でアパートに帰る

is grammatically sound, and it tends to put the focus on the second action. You manage a weak 'osaki ni,' and then you are out.

if you wanted to avoid that nuance, it might sound more natural to say:

お先に失礼しますと言ったら、アパートに帰る

if you mean something along the lines of 'Imma say goodbye, and then i am outta here.' The focus is on the first action, saying osaki ni. The ったら form in this case is used to signify that an action, once performed, will be followed by something else. It also carries the connotation that the action is not repetitive. It happens once, both actions are completed, you move on with your life.

if it was past tense you wanted, then this is the most natural:

お先に失礼しますと言ってから、アパートに帰った。

At least where I am in Hokkaido, this is what the kids on the street are saying.

Taurus
December 31st, 2009, 17:22
I was wondering more about if it was grammatically correct, although I understand that with present-tense of most verbs it's not always clear if you're doing it now or in the future.

I may well be wrong, but I think sometimes the present tense can be used to describe events that happened in the past, too, if the context has already made the tense clear. It's similar in English actually (eg. Something weird happened the other day. I was at school, talking to my coworkers. So there I am, saying 'see you' and heading home. etc.)

So, for example, your sentence could make sense in a comic strip as a running commentary on someone's actions as they leave school and return to their apartment. Or something.

Waldroon
January 13th, 2010, 15:21
Here is another question:

あの館で写真を撮りたいです - I want to take pictures in that building
Should this be:

あの建物で写真を撮りたいです

Or maybe:

あの建物で館内に写真を撮りたいです?

What is the difference between 館 and 建物 anyway?

AliDimayev
January 13th, 2010, 15:30
I am wrong but I think tatemono is a building as in just a general term for a structure. Whereas kan is building as in "The nani-nani Building".

Waldroon
January 13th, 2010, 15:35
Japanese teacher says that you never use 'kan' on its own, so that is probably correct. (would've asked her earlier but they were in a meeting)

Waldroon
January 13th, 2010, 15:41
Still wondering what the correct way to say 'in' is in this case, as in 'I want to take pictures in the building', is it で、の中に、に、or something else?

mteacher80
January 13th, 2010, 15:44
i just use ビル and の中に

kamukamuume
January 13th, 2010, 16:57
ビル and 建物 are both fine, but 建物 is more general and ビル refers to more of a business building, I think. also, I think あのビルの中で写真を撮りたいです would be correct, but I'd likely say あのビルに入って写真を撮りたいです or something like that.

jandek
January 14th, 2010, 08:55
Japanese teacher says that you never use 'kan' on its own, so that is probably correct. (would've asked her earlier but they were in a meeting)


館(やかた) can be used by itself. It means a mansion, or a small castle. There is a place with this in its name down the road from my town. It is probably a Pachinko Parlor. Archaically, it can be used to mean inn, but the reading is different - むろつみ.

Waldroon
January 14th, 2010, 10:35
If it's part of a name that would fall under the 'never on it's own' thing, no?

jandek
January 14th, 2010, 10:52
nah, i seent it.

http://www.hosono.jp/wisdom-db/scripts/Q_bible.asp?Syurui=1&word=%8A%D9

<---character in question standing on its own in no fewer than 8 examples.

UPGRAYEDD
January 14th, 2010, 11:04
You can also use 建物内 and ビル内 if you want.

撮影 is also a fancy word for photography if you want to drop that one. 撮影したい

Waldroon
January 22nd, 2010, 16:01
Someone explain to me the use of こちらそこ, because the definition I'm being given is "It is I who should say so", which sounds like an incredibly archaic way of saying "Yea, me too", or "Yea, I think so too".

KickOutTheJams
January 22nd, 2010, 16:43
Someone explain to me the use of こちらこそ, because the definition I'm being given is "It is I who should say so", which sounds like an incredibly archaic way of saying "Yea, me too", or "Yea, I think so too".

I'm guessing you're talking about こそ from the "It is I" part? If you are, こそ is a particle who's main function is to emphasize a word/phrase/clause. For example:

A: 本当にすみませんでした。
B: いいえ、[I]こちらこそ(すみません)でした。[No, I'm the one who should be sorry]

In that case (and possibly the same situation you heard it in), こそ just puts the onus of the action on B/oneself.

It can't really be used in the way you thought at the end, b/c こそ differentiates the object it attaches to from the assumed subtext and emphasizes its difference or uniqueness, and doesn't have any 'inclusive' properties.

It is kinda hard to phrase it in a way that doesn't sound verbose, e.g. "It is I who". About the best way to get the same meaning across is just to emphasize it, with written italics or by stressing it when talking.

a little tl;dr sorry



edit: this page has more examples so it might be useful

http://dev.jgram.org/pages/viewOne.php?tagE=koso

Waldroon
March 3rd, 2010, 14:26
Okay, so I'm good with こちらこそ now as since learning it I hear my teachers/other people using it all the time.

Now onto another unrelated question.

Looking at the CLAIR textbook today I noticed this sample sentence:

"Have you ever heard a story about this kind of person?"
"こんな人の話を聞いたことがありますか?"

What I'm wondering about is the use of こんな人の話

I understand all of the words being used but what I'm not entirely clear on is why this is translated as a "story about this kind of person" rather than "this kind of person's story". I've only really encountered "の" as a posessive, so it's hard for me to understand how this is working.

battle_onigiri
March 5th, 2010, 21:07
~たことがありますか means have you ever (experienced) ~. So the "こんな人の話" is more like "this person's story".

So that sentence could be read:

- Have you ever heard this person's story?
- Have you ever heard the story of this person?

I would go with the first.

miks
March 8th, 2010, 09:52
お先に失礼しますといった後でアパートに帰る
Does this mean:

After (I) say 'excuse me for leaving first', I will return (to my) apartment.
「お先に失礼します」と言った後でアパートに帰る
[I] return to [my] apartment after saying "please excuse me for leaving first"
Replace [i] or [my] with whomever the sentence is about.

jeamz.zeez
March 19th, 2010, 20:19
hello
i am fine
how are you



我很好
您好吗