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kalliea
April 18th, 2011, 12:37
Hey All,

My parents were cleaning out Grandma's place this weekend, and they found an old Japanese flag. My granddad was in the war, so we are assuming he brought it back. It is covered in Japanese writing. Can anyone translate what it says?

Gezora
April 18th, 2011, 13:09
I can't tell you exactly what it says, but I believe the writing to be messages from a soldier's hometown from his family, friends, and so forth. If I remember correctly the soldier would keep it with them.

tenderRondo
April 18th, 2011, 13:26
guys check it out my grandad has one too
http://www.klpstudio.com/japan_web/00001klpstudio_com_small.jpg

tenderRondo
April 18th, 2011, 13:27
guys check it out my grandad has one too
http://www.klpstudio.com/japan_web/00001klpstudio_com_small.jpg

kalliea
April 18th, 2011, 13:33
I can't tell you exactly what it says, but I believe the writing to be messages from a soldier's hometown from his family, friends, and so forth. If I remember correctly the soldier would keep it with them.

So gramps probably ripped it off some Jap he killed?

Great.

kalliea
April 18th, 2011, 13:36
guys check it out my grandad has one too
http://www.klpstudio.com/japan_web/00001klpstudio_com_small.jpg

Isn't that a signed flag from the Nomohan thing?

Lego
April 18th, 2011, 13:39
You should sell it on eBay, but I don't think Letters from Iwojima props fetch a high price these days.

Also, the 必勝 that was written a bunch is kind of sad.

tenderRondo
April 18th, 2011, 13:41
guys check it out my great aunt sue has one too!
http://www.usshadley.com/JapBattleFlagInf1.jpg

kalliea
April 18th, 2011, 14:16
You should sell it on eBay, but I don't think Letters from Iwojima props fetch a high price these days.

Also, the 必勝 that was written a bunch is kind of sad.

I've never seen Letters from Iwojima. Is that the flag TR keeps bringing up?

What does 必勝 mean?

Lego
April 18th, 2011, 14:21
Direct translation is "Look on the bright side! Have a great day, members of popular internet website ithinkimlost.com!" Roughly, it means "certain victory".

mothy
April 18th, 2011, 15:23
Kalliea's grandfather was a war criminal.

5100
April 18th, 2011, 15:28
The things that man did with potatoes...

kalliea
April 18th, 2011, 15:32
He wasn't from Idaho. But I've heard he did stuff with chickens in Okinawa.

word
April 18th, 2011, 15:39
Gross.

Don't just assume that he took it from some poor J-kid who died face-down in the mud while trying to stuff his liver and small intestines back inside his torso. He might have just purchased it with cigarettes or something from someone who did do that.

kalliea
April 18th, 2011, 16:07
Hmm...that actually makes me feel better.

Gezora
April 18th, 2011, 17:31
It might have also just been taken from a prisoner.

The reason I know about these flags is that many years ago in the local paper there was a story about how the flag was either returned to the soldier or his family. I forget which.

mothy
April 18th, 2011, 17:44
It could also be that he strangled a Japanese POW with his bare hands and took it off his dead body before peeing on the corpse.

UPGRAYEDD
April 18th, 2011, 17:56
It is covered in Japanese writing. Can anyone translate what it says?

It's all backwards and shit

3696
April 18th, 2011, 17:58
i hope he called the guy a chink while he cut out any gold teeth he may have had.

tenderRondo
April 18th, 2011, 18:09
perhaps the flag was a gift from his Japanese soldier love boy. I heard that during the war the American soldiers would accept a flag from the soldier who tickled his nuts in just the perfect way.

kalliea
April 18th, 2011, 19:46
It's all backwards and shit

Well, here it is from the other side, but it looks even more backwards to me...

word
April 18th, 2011, 19:52
Yanno, not to be an ass or anything, but wtf are you guys doing poking thumbtacks in/tying the corners of this thing? I've got some shit from my granddad's WW2 gig; I'd never do something like that. It's not THAT old/special, but ffs, really?

kalliea
April 18th, 2011, 20:22
It was found that way. I'm guessing Gramps hung it up at one time. Or the soldier gramps traded for it. I don't think it was ever taken out of the box once it got back to the states. I think even the ropes are original.

MixedNuts
April 18th, 2011, 21:04
All those soldiers and the things they'd do, plowing themselves and their airplanes into things like aircraft carriers and fighting in wars. SDF aside, can you imagine Japanese men today being like that? Too lazy or too sissy. Or else they'd be too bogged down in red tape and paperwork to do anything. I'd personally like to see a host brigade.

word
April 18th, 2011, 21:08
I find myself wondering if WW2 is the reason Japan is so full of "herbivore" men today. Maybe all the "carnivores" got killed off in the war, vastly reducing the percentage of their manly genes amongst Japanese society.

MixedNuts
April 18th, 2011, 21:14
or maybe they were all exposed to some agent orange-like pussification goop.

mothy
April 18th, 2011, 21:17
I don't know, I'd say the Japanese are still just as good at following commands from their superiors without question no matter how stupid and even if it means their death.

word
April 18th, 2011, 21:29
You could be right.

"Go over there and spray some water on that reactor core with this hose."

Gezora
April 18th, 2011, 21:41
I find myself wondering if WW2 is the reason Japan is so full of "herbivore" men today. Maybe all the "carnivores" got killed off in the war, vastly reducing the percentage of their manly genes amongst Japanese society.
Well, considering that today's herbivore men are children of the 80's I'd say it has more to do with their salarymen fathers living in offices/snack bars during their childhood, which was also the last remaining period in Japanese history where it seemed like anyone had any balls. Wet suit guy that saved his wife from a tsunami excluded.

MixedNuts
April 18th, 2011, 21:55
Wet suit guy was awesome.

Did you all see that story of the news reporter still taking pictures in the tsunami because that was his assignment?

ten_of_spades
April 19th, 2011, 03:20
Kal's grandfather:

http://www.chalumpa.com/random/Cotton%20Hill.jpg


I'd personally like to see a host brigade.

Just camp outside Kawaii Candie's bedroom on the weekend.

UPGRAYEDD
April 19th, 2011, 09:33
The big kanji are

武運長久 【ぶうんちょうきゅう】 (exp) continued luck in the fortunes of war
戦勝 【せんしょう】 (n,vs,adj-no) victory; triumph
必勝 【ひっしょう】 (n) certain victory

皇道精神
combination of


皇道 【こうどう】 (n) the benevolent Imperial rule; the Imperial Way; ED
精神 【せいしん】 (n) mind; soul; heart; spirit; intention; (P); ED

And most interesting

むま止して撃 - I think it means something like "stop the demons and shoot them"


The rest is a whole bunch of names

word
April 19th, 2011, 10:29
Pretty cool, anyway. I'd prolly frame it or something; you might ought to look into the best means of caring for it in the long haul. Mebbe something other than thumb-tacking it to the doorframe, anyway. I'm sure there're organizations that could see about getting it back to any surviving members of the J-kid's family, if that's more your thing.

kalliea
April 19th, 2011, 10:59
Translation stuff

You're awesome. Seriously. Thank you.

Pretty cool, anyway. I'd prolly frame it or something; you might ought to look into the best means of caring for it in the long haul. Mebbe something other than thumb-tacking it to the doorframe, anyway. I'm sure there're organizations that could see about getting it back to any surviving members of the J-kid's family, if that's more your thing.

Ugh, I don't know. This is what my dad wanted to do, but it seems terribly ackward. Why would those kids possibly want the flag back? Still, I'll try and look into it.

Talked to my mom. She said that gramps use to tell the story about how he took it off a dead guy. Thanks family. Just the kind of bed times stories we need more of.

UPGRAYEDD
April 19th, 2011, 12:56
I'm pretty sure that any surviving family members would be very grateful to receive it. They certainly never received any physical remains to intern, so just receiving a simple object like a flag the soldier was carrying into battle would mean a lot to them.

Gezora
April 19th, 2011, 12:58
I suppose it depends on their opinion of the war, but it seems plausible that they would want it.

UPGRAYEDD
April 19th, 2011, 12:59
And it's always nice for the family of the person who killed the soldier to make the gesture of peace/healing/whatever by returning it.

kalliea
April 19th, 2011, 13:35
I'm pretty sure that any surviving family members would be very grateful to receive it. They certainly never received any physical remains to intern, so just receiving a simple object like a flag the soldier was carrying into battle would mean a lot to them.

Hmm...Okay. I'll try.

Do you see an address anywhere? Can you give me some of the names?

word
April 19th, 2011, 13:56
A bit of googling resulted in this page (http://rallypointmilitaria.com/articles/wwii-us/captured-japanese-battle) (among others). There was a short bit at the bottom:


As an alternative, there is an organization in Japan that will help find the family of the fallen soldier, and work with you to return the flag to the family. My grandfather returned from Guadalcanal with a few of these battle flags. After a lot of consideration, I have chosen to keep the flag that I inherited, but display it in honor of both brave men.

This organization can be reached at senbo-peace@senbotsusya.com
(senbo-peace@senbotsusya.com)

word
April 19th, 2011, 13:59
Also, please consider this (pulled from the Wikipedia page about these flags (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinomaru_yosegaki)):


According to the National World War II Museum, the preservation guide has a list of recommendations for storing and preserving synthetic materials such as Japanese flags (Hinomaru Yosegaki). Store artifacts in climate-controlled areas because it can increase damage from aging. Never store the artifact or artifacts in attics or basements. Also keep the artifacts away from bright light such as sunlight and florescent lights which have large amounts of UV rays. If displaying a flag or any textile artifacts, make certain that is supported by a backing. Never let it hang by its own weight. If storing in a box, make sure the artifact is flat with no creases. Do not store artifact in sealed plastic bags, however use muslin bags. Human beings are a hazard to these artifacts as well. Our hands contain oils, sweat, and make-up. These increase damage to the artifact. Wear clean cotton or nylon gloves when handling heirloom textiles.

word
April 19th, 2011, 14:02
Here's a link to that organization's page in English (http://www.senbotsusya.com/en/index.html) (the link to the English page is in kanji, but it's on the far right of their main page (http://www.senbotsusya.com/)).

tenderRondo
April 19th, 2011, 14:04
how come none of you assholes are talking about the flag my grandpops had?

Hikari
April 19th, 2011, 14:12
how come none of you assholes are talking about the flag my grandpops had?

'cause your grandpoop was probably a commie

Lego
April 19th, 2011, 15:28
Do you see an address anywhere?

I think they stopped putting luggage tags on war flags in the 1920s.

kalliea
April 19th, 2011, 17:06
Also, please consider this (pulled from the Wikipedia page about these flags (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinomaru_yosegaki)):

Yeah...no. It has been folded in a box in the Grandparents basement for the last 50 years. Now it is folded on the dinning room table at my parents house. I'll call and tell them not to fold it, I guess.




Here's a link to that organization's page in English (http://www.senbotsusya.com/en/index.html) (the link to the English page is in kanji, but it's on the far right of their main page (http://www.senbotsusya.com/)).

Interesting. Thanks. (Although, again, this is a little weird.)

I'm actually going to Okinawa soon. I'll make some calls to the war museum and ask them too.


I think they stopped putting luggage tags on war flags in the 1920s.

In reading about these flags I found many references to people finding addresses on them. That seems to be primarily how they find the families.

P.S. - Your avatar kind of freaks me out.

tenderRondo
April 19th, 2011, 17:43
you guys are all fucking dick holes. kalliea comes up in here talking about some flag her grandpappy stole of his japenese loves slave and you treat her like she is the fucking belle of the ball. but I talk about my grandpa and aunt sue's flags and you just ignore me.

3696
April 19th, 2011, 17:46
kall, please keep us updated! i want to know what you do with that dead jaggot's heritage.

word
April 19th, 2011, 17:49
(Although, again, this is a little weird.)
Honestly, it may not be worth the trouble. You might end up returning it to an ancient old woman who watched her older brother march off to battle and never saw him again. It might be the last physical sign of his existence on this earth that she ever knows. She might break down into sobs of grief and gratitude at the return of such a priceless treasure.

Or, you might end up returning it to some obnoxious, unappreciative grandkid who doesn't give two shits about it. He/she will stuff it in a drawer and then throw it away a month later after accidentally using it to mop up some cat puke.

tenderRondo
April 19th, 2011, 17:50
you guys are real jerks

Hikari
April 19th, 2011, 18:06
I wonder what Kall will do.

tenderRondo
April 19th, 2011, 18:07
et toi hikari?

kalliea
April 19th, 2011, 18:56
Honestly, it may not be worth the trouble. You might end up returning it to an ancient old woman who watched her older brother march off to battle and never saw him again. It might be the last physical sign of his existence on this earth that she ever knows. She might break down into sobs of grief and gratitude at the return of such a priceless treasure.

Or, you might end up returning it to some obnoxious, unappreciative grandkid who doesn't give two shits about it. He/she will stuff it in a drawer and then throw it away a month later after accidentally using it to mop up some cat puke.

I was thinking they would use it to wipe up after masterbating, but anything is possible.

Alphabet
April 19th, 2011, 20:54
Flag drama! Cool!

word
April 19th, 2011, 21:52
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2009/12/16/129054883444221984.jpg

kalliea
April 20th, 2011, 03:58
Those are rules that you just made up.

MixedNuts
April 20th, 2011, 09:22
I saw a documentary on TV once about an old WWII veteran. He had one of those flags too from a Japanese soldier he killed, and he eventually returned the flag to the soldier's family. If I remember the story, the veteran stumbled upon this Japanese kid and his friends in a field harassing a cow, and he rushed in and shot them before they noticed him. The Japanese guy had some onigiri on him and the flag, so the American guy ate the onigiri and took the flag. When he was asked if he regretted killing the soldier he said "nope, war is war."

kalliea
April 20th, 2011, 10:43
That was my mom's response as well. Dad was tip toeing all around it, but mom (the daughter of the soldier) was just like 'it was war. Of course dad killed people. The would have killed him, too.'

UPGRAYEDD
April 20th, 2011, 11:04
He did have a flag that said shoot the foreign devils dead on it.

Still, if it's possible to find out where it came from, you should consider returning it.

I think the blurry kanjis under the "shoot the devil" slogan might be a unit name or something identifiable.

MixedNuts
April 20th, 2011, 11:41
That was my mom's response as well. Dad was tip toeing all around it, but mom (the daughter of the soldier) was just like 'it was war. If course dad killed people. The would have killed him, too.'

Yeah, that's true. I have family members that served in the war, and it's either killed or be killed. Though right now they seem to have trouble realizing that the war is over. I could totally see some of them as being the "remember Pearl Harbor!" types of commenters following the earthquake. While I disagree with that thinking, it probably is difficult to "get over" being in a war.

Anyway I hope your fam succeeds in finding the family of the flag's owner.

lawnchair
April 20th, 2011, 13:04
Over on the right side next to 武運長久 it says

祝 西城?出征

祝(いわい) means congratulations or celebration
西城(さいじょう) is either a place name or a family name
? I can't figure out what this kanji is. Anybody else?
出征(しゅっせい) means to depart for the front

The name directly under that is 齋藤喜市郎(さいとうきいちろう)

So depending on what that questionable kanji is, my best guess is that this flag belonged either to a dude named Kiichirou Saitou from a place called Saijou, or to a dude whose last name was Saijou and whose first name is that question mark kanji.

Edit: So, I think that missing kanji might be 后(こう), which can be a boy's name. If that is the case (again, it's hard to tell), then this flag probably belonged to a dude named Saijou Kou.

tenderRondo
April 20th, 2011, 15:45
you guys are all real fucking jerks. and big meanies!

Tyr
April 20th, 2011, 20:48
Its a signed flag.
Like the last day of school when everybody signs your white shirt so you don't forget them before the soldiers set off for something important they'd have all their comrades sign a flag. I've seen a few examples of this sort of thing, was quite common in the Japanese army. I'd guess from the spotty translations posted earlier this one was from when some guy was called up from the training camp/reserves/whatever to go to a unit at the front.

Lego
April 21st, 2011, 11:05
Yeah, fuck all of you and your spotty translations!

kalliea
April 23rd, 2011, 17:49
Not that spotty. Found the guy. Thanks all!

mothy
April 23rd, 2011, 18:03
I bet you did... Think of a more entertaining lie next time.

kalliea
April 23rd, 2011, 18:40
Ah man, don't bum my high. I'd like to think we got the right guy. The people I was with (some Japanese women who worked at the place) said they thought it was the right guy...

Edit - This is the Peace Park Memorial with the names of everyone who died in Okinawa during the war.