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View Full Version : Australian JETs will make about minimum wage in 2013.



Kuroda Ishikawa
April 16th, 2013, 16:21
The current minimum wage in Australia (assuming 40 hrs / wk, 50 wks / yr since they only give me the hourly rate) is about $31,900 AUD a year
Two days ago, the JET salary of 3,360,000 yen a year was worth $31,880 AUD.

Just under the minimum wage.

For Interac ALTs it looks even worse. That salary was only $21,900 / yr, a good 30% lower than the minimum wage in Australia, a few days ago.

Ini
April 16th, 2013, 16:31
its more of an issue for JETs leaving this year...... the pension refund that was looking so good last summer suddenly isn't looking that plump

zombiekelly
April 16th, 2013, 19:32
Yes, it does suck, but I'd rather be here doing this that what I was back in America. Near minimum wage tape recorder is much better than minimum wage combini slave while I figure out what the heck I want to do.

DickForce
April 17th, 2013, 01:44
Yeah, I've been thinking and worrying about that. The trick is to save your money, not drop it all into your home currency whenever. Actually after topping out at around 100 yen to 1 USD, it's declining again. It has yet to stabilize, and I'm no economist, but odds are it will dip below 90:1 in not too long, perhaps even before August

Kuroda Ishikawa
April 17th, 2013, 08:17
Yeah, I've been thinking and worrying about that. The trick is to save your money, not drop it all into your home currency whenever. Actually after topping out at around 100 yen to 1 USD, it's declining again. It has yet to stabilize, and I'm no economist, but odds are it will dip below 90:1 in not too long, perhaps even before August

Given that the target is 95 yen or higher and they have acted to boost it above 95 every time it's headed lower the last 6 months, I'm curious why you believe that.

Page
April 17th, 2013, 08:58
Plus you're assuming that everyone has the good fortune to not need to send money home every month.

Ini
April 17th, 2013, 09:07
snigger

Tyr
April 17th, 2013, 09:46
So this guy is a troll ey.


If you're so concerned about the pay you get from Jet and how it transfers home then you're doing it wrong. It's MEANT to be a pre-career experience abroad that you do for non-economic reasons for a few years before you start making real money.

Kyrajen
April 17th, 2013, 10:57
Or it could not at all be about the money. I'm probably in the minority on this, but I don't care about money other than what it can get me (food, shelter, etc.). Sure, I like buying toys and all, but the goal shouldn't be money. With this program, I'm hoping to partake in a good experience. I also hope the experience is rewarding enough for me to want to remain in Japan as long as possible.

I must admit, though, that I'm surprised that the wages in JET are minimum wage in Australia... I have a decent job in the US, and the pay rate for JET is pretty much on par with the job I have now. Are the living expenses in Australia very high? (I apologize if this is a truly ignorant question....)

Kuroda Ishikawa
April 17th, 2013, 11:58
It's MEANT to be a pre-career experience abroad that you do for non-economic reasons for a few years before you start making real money.

Lol, if you say so. Look at the JET program in 2012 for Americans. At that exchange rate the JET salary for the year was about $45k gross. About 20% deducted to pay for healthcare, pension, taxes, etc. However, the pension is mostly refundable, so let's call it 15%, or net salary of around $38k. Using Colorado as a mid-range example, to get a net salary of $38k would require a gross salary of $53k. Taxes and deductions are just that much higher. I didn't bother comparing costs of living, healthcare costs / coverage, etc. but I'm reasonably certain for most Americans in most placements that will favor Japan as well.

How many ALTs could have / were / would have made $53k last year if they were in America instead of Japan? Not that many, I imagine.

Now compare that to Australian ALTs thinking about coming for 2013, and facing a work situation where they will make just about as much as a gas station attendant.

Money is a significant issue for anyone who thinks about money, and anyone taking any position should be considering it. Otherwise, if all you want is experience, you should be looking for unpaid internships rather than doing JET.

mothy
April 17th, 2013, 13:19
snigger

Snigga, what?!

Ini
April 17th, 2013, 13:22
Snigga who

Tyr
April 17th, 2013, 13:43
Lol, if you say so. Look at the JET program in 2012 for Americans. At that exchange rate the JET salary for the year was about $45k gross. About 20% deducted to pay for healthcare, pension, taxes, etc. However, the pension is mostly refundable, so let's call it 15%, or net salary of around $38k. Using Colorado as a mid-range example, to get a net salary of $38k would require a gross salary of $53k. Taxes and deductions are just that much higher. I didn't bother comparing costs of living, healthcare costs / coverage, etc. but I'm reasonably certain for most Americans in most placements that will favor Japan as well.

How many ALTs could have / were / would have made $53k last year if they were in America instead of Japan? Not that many, I imagine.

Now compare that to Australian ALTs thinking about coming for 2013, and facing a work situation where they will make just about as much as a gas station attendant.


How many Jets would have spent $10 on a beer if they were in America instead of Japan? Not that many, I imagine.

Money doesn't convert so easily between countries. You have to consider costs, quality of life, etc...
If there was a job in Dubai that paid twice what a minimum wage job in Colorado does would you take it? Hell no, Dubai is hot and boring, and everything costs 4 times as much there.



Money is a significant issue for anyone who thinks about money, and anyone taking any position should be considering it. Otherwise, if all you want is experience, you should be looking for unpaid internships rather than doing JET.
A man's gotta eat.
Earning something is obviously an issue for practically anyone. Quibbling over a few hundred dollars either way however really doesn't matter.
Just look at all applicants even the really terrible dispatch companies get year after year. All people see is "I get to work in Japan? AWESOME!" and they're there.

Kuroda Ishikawa
April 17th, 2013, 14:43
If there was a job in Dubai that paid twice what a minimum wage job in Colorado does would you take it? Hell no, Dubai is hot and boring, and everything costs 4 times as much there.

If there was a job in rural Japan that paid less than a minimum wage job in Australia, would an Australian take it? Hell no, rural Japan is hot and boring, and beer costs 4 times as much there.

Gizmotech
April 17th, 2013, 15:20
If there was a job in rural Japan that paid less than a minimum wage job in Australia, would an Australian take it? Hell no, rural Japan is hot and boring, and beer costs 4 times as much there.

LOL. Truer words were never spoken.

Though I get to drink half price beer in my hell hole of a town, so ya. WOOT 250yen drafts of real Asahi (no happoshu crap for me sir!).

Tyr
April 17th, 2013, 16:11
If there was a job in rural Japan that paid less than a minimum wage job in Australia, would an Australian take it? Hell no, rural Japan is hot and boring, and beer costs 4 times as much there.

Japan isn't boring, especially for the type of person who applies for jet without money being their primary focus. And it is hot to an Australian?
I'm pretty sure Japan is cheaper than Australia, I've never been there but stats do put it up there with Norway and Switzerland on the expensive country front. Beer is one of the few things where Japan seems to edge it out with it being more like 50% more expensive but on rent Japan is really cheap. On other things too Japan is more affordable than a lot of other countries.

Kuroda Ishikawa
April 17th, 2013, 18:39
Are you autistic?

Tyr
April 18th, 2013, 10:20
Are you autistic?

When the troll fails to get people angry...resort to random insulsts?

Kuroda Ishikawa
April 18th, 2013, 11:19
When the troll fails to get people angry...resort to random insulsts?

I wasn't trolling you, I was mocking you, because it has pretty quickly become clear that you have no idea about any of the things I have discussed and are having trouble coming up with rational counter-arguments.

You say things like "Money doesn't convert easily between countries", but actually it does, and "you have to consider costs, quality of life, etc", yet I did, as you can see it in the same posts you quoted for that gem. You state meaningless truisms like "a man's gotta eat" as if they are counterpoints, and make claims such as "Earning something is obviously an issue for practically anyone" despite the fact that this is both exactly what I was saying, and the exact opposite of your original statement that being concerned about pay on JET is "doing it wrong" and that one shouldn't be considering the economics of the position. You finish off with the wonderful insight that "You shouldn't quibble over a few hundred dollars", yet I have shown that we are talking about thousands of dollars.

It's a staggering amount of cognitive dissonance, ignorance and nonsense all condensed into a few posts. It seems like you are just trying to justify the fact that you've never bothered to consider the JET program salary and are happy to just float along in the kind of bliss that only alcoholics and idiots ever find. By all means, float away, but yea forgive me for not taking you seriously.

mrcharisma
April 18th, 2013, 11:35
How the hell can the crocodile hunters afford to shell out that amount on a minimum wage? Converted to pounds their minimum would be an above-average salary in Scotland or Northern England, though admittedly neither of those places are known for the burning ambition of their residents.

Should have learned to become a plumber and moved there years ago.

DickForce
April 18th, 2013, 11:37
Why are you guys paying so godamn much for a can of beer. I've never paid more than 148 yen for a can of anything in the dead center of Tokyo

Ini
April 18th, 2013, 11:59
Talking about proper beer, not your 3rd kind piss

mothy
April 18th, 2013, 12:05
Why are you guys paying so godamn much for a can of beer. I've never paid more than 148 yen for a can of anything in the dead center of Tokyo

You've also been raping your mouth.

DickForce
April 18th, 2013, 12:11
Well if you want a quality beer you're going to pay up no matter what. I'd rather just get a half-decent Suntory whisky

Ini
April 18th, 2013, 12:28
Unless you live in a country which sells cheap good quality beer....

Gizmotech
April 18th, 2013, 12:33
Unless you live in a country which sells cheap good quality beer....

One of the reasons I miss home every now and then. Lots of selection, and unless it was european imported it was anywhere from 25-40% cheaper than here. (was much cheaper when the yen was stronger :P)

DickForce
April 18th, 2013, 12:39
Well, I guess I have to sit this little mantalk out, because I've never been crazy about beer and definitely wouldn't let it impact my location choice. Considering the variety of good and cheap liquors and wotnot in Japan, I think I'll be just fine only drinking a kirin now and again

Prospective
April 18th, 2013, 12:52
Cost of living in Australia is quite a bit more for most things. Maybe not beer, but in Australia a 700mL bottle of spirits is $400 when I can often find the same thing here for ~1600 yen.

Plus with HECS it's not like we've got student loans to pay off. And our tax rate is higher in Aus than Japan.

It's possible to have a better life here than on minimum wage in Australia. Though money definitely wouldn't be the motive for most Aussies that come.

If we're lucky Gillard will get reelected and the Aussie dollar will dive, the yen has targets vs the yank $, so the Aussie dollar could free fall without any kind of readjustment.

Ini
April 18th, 2013, 12:54
in Australia a 700mL bottle of spirits is $400

Jesus!

Tyr
April 18th, 2013, 13:39
I wasn't trolling you, I was mocking you, because it has pretty quickly become clear that you have no idea about any of the things I have discussed and are having trouble coming up with rational counter-arguments.

You say things like "Money doesn't convert easily between countries", but actually it does, and "you have to consider costs, quality of life, etc", yet I did, as you can see it in the same posts you quoted for that gem. You state meaningless truisms like "a man's gotta eat" as if they are counterpoints, and make claims such as "Earning something is obviously an issue for practically anyone" despite the fact that this is both exactly what I was saying, and the exact opposite of your original statement that being concerned about pay on JET is "doing it wrong" and that one shouldn't be considering the economics of the position. You finish off with the wonderful insight that "You shouldn't quibble over a few hundred dollars", yet I have shown that we are talking about thousands of dollars.

It's a staggering amount of cognitive dissonance, ignorance and nonsense all condensed into a few posts. It seems like you are just trying to justify the fact that you've never bothered to consider the JET program salary and are happy to just float along in the kind of bliss that only alcoholics and idiots ever find. By all means, float away, but yea forgive me for not taking you seriously.

A man's gotta eat is a valid argument to why don't people just do an internship. I would have loved to have done an internship during/after university but couldn't afford it. An internship in Japan would be lightyears outside of my price range. "Earning something is obviously an issue for practically anyone" is the same. Well fucking duh you have to make some money, only the rich can be so unconcerned with money that they can survive without any pay. There's a lot of difference however between being OK with earning enough money to live and seeing earning a lot as your primary motivation in life.
Money doesn't convert easily between countries. This is a fact. Who gives a shit if the average worker in France earns 2000 euros a month when you live in Kenya and can have the same or better quality of life on 200 euros a month (random countries and random figures there).
You are not considering costs and quality of life if you are bitching about the fact that a minimum wage job in an expensive country pays more than a so-so job in a medium priced country.

DickForce
April 18th, 2013, 13:59
I'm still actually not sure how expensive Oz is. I checked the craigslist for a couple of cities and apartment rentals seem to be in the average range, 500 to 1000 a month. That's basically the same price as an apartment on the outskirts of a major city in Japan, or in a mid-sized city close to the train. Japanese food costs don't seem to be "medium priced" at all; I can't think of any first world country with a consumer goods basket that filled with imports

Tyr
April 18th, 2013, 14:12
I'm still actually not sure how expensive Oz is. I checked the craigslist for a couple of cities and apartment rentals seem to be in the average range, 500 to 1000 a month. That's basically the same price as an apartment on the outskirts of a major city in Japan, or in a mid-sized city close to the train. Japanese food costs don't seem to be "medium priced" at all; I can't think of any first world country with a consumer goods basket that filled with imports

Well, medium priced to me, worldwide speaking any developed country is of course expensive. And Japan is towards the top end of that. Compared to the UK it's fairly similarly priced.

Japan isn't expensive once you're here (getting here though...). Its prices are more strange than expensive. Fruit costs way more than it has any right to, beer is dear too, meat however is pretty cheap as are typical restaurants, rent (for single people), etc...
Various studies that say Japan, Tokyo in particular, is expensive are usually based on dodgy, western biased methodology of buying imported food and the like.

Australia is probally the third most expensive country in the world after Norway and Switzerland. Ranks higher than Japan certainly.

Ini
April 18th, 2013, 14:36
Japanese food costs don't seem to be "medium priced" at all; I can't think of any first world country with a consumer goods basket that filled with imports

stop trolling

DickForce
April 18th, 2013, 14:38
I would say whole chicken breasts are incredibly cheap, chicken thighs are moderately priced, and then nothing else at all is reasonable. Beef pretty much bottoms out at 88 yen to the 100g unless it's on sale (and even 88 yen is basically sale price). In America it bottoms out at around 275 to 450g in more expensive cities, as low as 100 to 450g in farm communities. Of course, most of Japan's beef and pork now comes from America anyway, so you're paying for tariffs and fuel. This is based on Osaka prefecture prices, btw.

Ini
April 18th, 2013, 14:45
Of course, most of Japan's beef and pork now comes from America anyway

stop trolling


for the love of god please tell me you are trolling

Gizmotech
April 18th, 2013, 15:03
Beef/pork products come from the US? Really?

I wonder why everything in my store says Australia/New Zealand/Japan on it.... I'M BEING LIED TO!

DickForce
April 18th, 2013, 15:10
Japan offers growth potential for U.S. beef (http://www.cattlenetwork.com/cattle-news/198523361.html)

At its highest point, American beef accounted for 53% of all Japanese beef. It declined after a ban, and has been steadily increasing, much more now after restrictions have been eased up substantially. I don't know the share that each other country has. So, I was half-right.

coop52
April 18th, 2013, 15:15
I've never seen US beef here. Pork yes, but not beef. US pork isn't even that much cheaper than the domestic since my prefecture produces a decent amount of pork. I wouldn't even say most of the pork in my local supermarket is imported; only maybe a third or so is. As for beef, you can get domestic or Australian. Australian's cheaper, I'll give you that.

Ini
April 18th, 2013, 15:17
at its highest point? thats like saying germans are the biggest cause of death in america because at its highest point they had killed 400k.

if we have learned anything over the last few days its that you are never right

DickForce
April 18th, 2013, 15:25
I've never seen US beef here. Pork yes, but not beef. US pork isn't even that much cheaper than the domestic since my prefecture produces a decent amount of pork. I wouldn't even say most of the pork in my local supermarket is imported; only maybe a third or so is. As for beef, you can get domestic or Australian. Australian's cheaper, I'll give you that.

I've definitely seen more American pork than American beef, but I've seen more American beef than any other foreign beef in my experience. Again, I can't find a pie chart explaining how much each country contributes, so I'm kinda going by eyesight, and by the sounds of it so is everyone else here. I know US pork isn't that much cheaper, my point is that Japan is a lot more expensive than America because even its cheap meat is imported from America which means it has fees piled on top of it that other first world countries don't encounter. None of you have countered my point by insisting on the ubiquity of Ozzie meat. And if Ozzie meat is cheaper than any other meat in Japan, that especially doesn't disprove my argument that Japan is cheaper than Oz. Where are you guys going with this?

Ini
April 18th, 2013, 15:29
you point that food is expensive seems dependent on the assumption people are eating beef and pork constantly. how many slant eyes are having tbone steaks and pork chops every night?

Cytrix
April 18th, 2013, 15:32
Cost of living in Australia is quite a bit more for most things. Maybe not beer, but in Australia a 700mL bottle of spirits is $400 when I can often find the same thing here for ~1600 yen.



...I think you mean $40.

But yeah, living costs in NZ and Aussie are higher, hence the higher wage.

Prospective
April 18th, 2013, 15:37
Yeah, $40. I think I went to write 4000 yen, but then deleted a 0 thinking "naow itz dallarz!!!!21121" durp


But I eat for cheaper here than I ever did in Australia unless I refuse to change my diet and continue trying to eat beef, fruit, milk and bread.

But stir-fried chicken and vegetables on rice? Hella cheap compared to home...


Plus I wasn't on minimum wage in Australia. I'm an Arts grad so I was on the dole. JET is still an attractive option for Aussies like me. Just not for people that are employable at home.

therealwindycity
April 18th, 2013, 16:48
I can't find a pie chart

Ok I think I like you and you should stick around because when you're not saying something that I personally give a fuck about you are pretty amusing

zombiekelly
April 18th, 2013, 18:41
My oversized 7-11 has US beef, but it's just the gyuudon strips.

mothy
April 18th, 2013, 20:55
Japan offers growth potential for U.S. beef (http://www.cattlenetwork.com/cattle-news/198523361.html)

At its highest point, American beef accounted for 53% of all Japanese beef. It declined after a ban, and has been steadily increasing, much more now after restrictions have been eased up substantially. I don't know the share that each other country has. So, I was half-right.

How is being completely wrong being half-right? Did you go to one of those progressive schools without grades?

Kyrajen
April 18th, 2013, 23:18
I do not have first hand knowledge of life in Japan (my only experience was as a tourist last summer in and around Tokyo for a couple of weeks). However, the wage that we get on JET really doesn't seem too bad. I also have a friend that went through JET, and said it was plenty. I'm curious how you can compare wage rates in one area to another. The wages I get paid in the US now would scarcely find me a good place to live in Norway, if what I've been told is correct. Yet, here, I can live just fine paying for a single bedroom apartment in the Chicago suburbs on my own.

Having stated the above, there are two main worries I can imagine from the OP's perspective. The first would be repayment of student loans, if any. Are you worried that you will be unable to pay back your loans? The second would be for saving up money for the eventual return to Australia.

Since you didn't post the reason in the original post, would you mind enlightening us as to the reason for the comparison? Perhaps I missed it in the follow up posts if you mentioned it.

hunterofpeace
April 19th, 2013, 10:05
It was plenty... when the yen wasn't tanking and the salary was higher.

Kuroda Ishikawa
April 23rd, 2013, 11:27
I'm curious how you can compare wage rates in one area to another.

Use Google? If international, use Google and the exchange rate.


Since you didn't post the reason in the original post, would you mind enlightening us as to the reason for the comparison? Perhaps I missed it in the follow up posts if you mentioned it.

It was interesting.

Kyrajen
April 23rd, 2013, 20:35
Heh, I didn't mean literally. >.>

Scrotty
May 2nd, 2013, 16:51
The current minimum wage in Australia (assuming 40 hrs / wk, 50 wks / yr since they only give me the hourly rate) is about $31,900 AUD a year
Two days ago, the JET salary of 3,360,000 yen a year was worth $31,880 AUD.

Just under the minimum wage.

For Interac ALTs it looks even worse. That salary was only $21,900 / yr, a good 30% lower than the minimum wage in Australia, a few days ago.
the income tax in australia for a resident earning $31,900 is a little over 20% (19c on the dollar plus a 1.5% medicare levy).
http://www.ato.gov.au/content/12333.htm (http://www.ato.gov.au/content/12333.htm)

the income tax in japan for a non-resident (or resident for that matter) earning 3,360,000 is 10%.
http://www.worldwide-tax.com/japan/japan_tax.asp (http://www.worldwide-tax.com/japan/japan_tax.asp)

the goods and services tax in australia is 10%, compared to the consumption tax of 5% in japan.

finally i don't know how many of your hypothetical minimum wage positions in australia would come with subsidized accommodation, free flights, or paid-for on-the-job travel and accommodation expenses but i doubt it would be that many.

australians end up with a scroteload more money on JET than they would working minimum wage jobs in australia.

a side note is that japan has more public holidays that australia does, plus you get 20 days annual leave, plus all the other special leave that is dependent on placement, so even though full-time australian positions have wonderful things non-existent in japan such as sick leave and maternity leave, your average grunt ends up with more time off on JET.

Gizmotech
May 2nd, 2013, 17:01
australians end up with a scroteload more money on JET than they would working minimum wage jobs in australia.


The only way an australian is getting a scroteload is if you take them home....

Kuroda Ishikawa
May 3rd, 2013, 01:25
the income tax in australia for a resident earning $31,900 is a little over 20% (19c on the dollar plus a 1.5% medicare levy).
http://www.ato.gov.au/content/12333.htm (http://www.ato.gov.au/content/12333.htm)

the income tax in japan for a non-resident (or resident for that matter) earning 3,360,000 is 10%.
http://www.worldwide-tax.com/japan/japan_tax.asp (http://www.worldwide-tax.com/japan/japan_tax.asp)

the goods and services tax in australia is 10%, compared to the consumption tax of 5% in japan.

finally i don't know how many of your hypothetical minimum wage positions in australia would come with subsidized accommodation, free flights, or paid-for on-the-job travel and accommodation expenses but i doubt it would be that many.

australians end up with a scroteload more money on JET than they would working minimum wage jobs in australia.

a side note is that japan has more public holidays that australia does, plus you get 20 days annual leave, plus all the other special leave that is dependent on placement, so even though full-time australian positions have wonderful things non-existent in japan such as sick leave and maternity leave, your average grunt ends up with more time off on JET.

-it's 19c on the dollar for each dollar over $18,200, which is nowhere near 20% tax. Read your own link. According to that scheme you would pay $2,599.20 in taxes or about 8.1% income tax.
http://www.suncorpbank.com.au/personal/investing/tax-calculator

-why did you include the healthcare tax for Australia but not Japan?

-subsidized accommodations, travel reimbursement, and accommodation expenses (did you just list the same thing twice or is this somehow different?) are not universal to all ALTs, many get none, not to mention that just as often ALTs pay key money, shakken and general car ownership costs, and $/square meter of housing costs far in excess of what they would back home.

-flights are free only if you finish your contract

-The JET contract includes no overtime pay or bonuses, which some minimum wage positions have