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coheeshosho
June 23rd, 2014, 15:41
Sorry if this is a repeated thread. I researched it slightly and couldn't find anything on the forum. Has anyone ever gotten into a bad argument with a JTE that you have worked with? What happened? Did you win?

I don't have one to contribute, but I think about yelling at my JTEs on a daily basis. They suck hard and I hate their ass faces.

Antonath
June 23rd, 2014, 15:46
I'm fairly sure "bad arguments" are rare. Most ITILers just passive-aggressive the hell out of the JTE in question then come here to moan about it.

And you never win an argument with a JTE. Ever.

BeckyJones
June 23rd, 2014, 15:50
And you never win an argument with a JTE. Ever.
this.

I've had two arguments with JTEs that were above and beyond the normal "Let's argue over a point to find which one is correct". Both arguments ended poorly, and I wouldn't recommend you ever do it. Unless you want to end up never talking to that JTE again and lots of weird nasty looks from a coworker.

Jiggit
June 23rd, 2014, 15:57
The way to "argue" with JTEs is to stop doing aidzuchi and stare at them blankly. When they peter out you pause for a while and then ask them a really straightforward question. Putting them in situations where they have to make a decision and be responsible for it. You are the assistant after all. When they're trying to tell you to do something responding with "well if that's what you want me to do..." is a good way to short circuit them.

Of course it's far better to figure out how to interact with them so you can get along better in general and everyone will be happy. But if any of us were any good at talking to people we wouldn't have left our miserable existences back home, right?

kenkennif
June 23rd, 2014, 16:26
Good question but I've never had that yet & have not really heard of much of that happening either... would be interesting to hear if anybody had.

coop52
June 23rd, 2014, 21:21
I don't really argue with my JTEs, but they argue with each other sometimes. It's really awkward, too, like watching your parents fight.

webstaa
June 24th, 2014, 08:07
I don't really argue with my JTEs, but they argue with each other sometimes. It's really awkward, too, like watching your parents fight.

My JTE's had it out over who they wanted to select for the Speech contest (in September) as the only students that came forward were 1st years. I don't care, but they crushed the dreams of my cute motivated 1st years... T.T"

coheeshosho
June 24th, 2014, 08:25
I don't really argue with my JTEs, but they argue with each other sometimes. It's really awkward, too, like watching your parents fight.

Good point, I've noticed this. At my school, there is an English department chair position and that guy got demoted. So now he and this new chair have bad blood. It's like a showdown to see who can be the least terrible English teacher...

coheeshosho
June 24th, 2014, 11:29
this.

I've had two arguments with JTEs that were above and beyond the normal "Let's argue over a point to find which one is correct". Both arguments ended poorly, and I wouldn't recommend you ever do it. Unless you want to end up never talking to that JTE again and lots of weird nasty looks from a coworker.

Thanks for the post, would you care to elaborate on your experiences? Sounds interesting.

Gizmotech
June 25th, 2014, 19:18
Arguing with Japanese is like masterbating with sandpaper... regardless how dumb an idea it sounds at the outset you're still slightly curious... and then it just hurts for weeks afterwards.

tealparadise
June 25th, 2014, 20:54
The way to "argue" with JTEs is to stop doing aidzuchi and stare at them blankly. When they peter out you pause for a while and then ask them a really straightforward question. Putting them in situations where they have to make a decision and be responsible for it. You are the assistant after all. When they're trying to tell you to do something responding with "well if that's what you want me to do..." is a good way to short circuit them.

Of course it's far better to figure out how to interact with them so you can get along better in general and everyone will be happy. But if any of us were any good at talking to people we wouldn't have left our miserable existences back home, right?

I subconsciously started doing this to the only JTE who REALLY makes me angry on a consistent basis, then realized how uncomfortable it makes them, then started using it every time they are being insane. I don't honestly think it helps, but it makes me feel better and certainly lets them know what I think of them.

JTE: Excuse me! I have class 2A next...... (aka in literally 2 minutes, if not already begun)
Me: 0_0
JTE: umm.... it's not on the schedule.... but....
Me: 0_____0
JTE: I have to... er... I have to...
Me: 0______________________________________0
JTE: Could you.....
Me: 0___________________________________________________0
JTE: Could you go first?
Me: Sure. (get up, grab stuff, leave, teach half the class on my own while he finishes making the lesson plan)

Jiggit
June 25th, 2014, 20:58
It's almost never the smartest thing to do, but it is the most satisfying thing to do.

ihatefall
June 25th, 2014, 22:50
Me: 0_0


Me: 0_____0


Me: 0______________________________________0


Me: 0___________________________________________________0


lol

Wafflehouse
June 27th, 2014, 15:43
I once was talked down to in my first week by one of the teachers for talking with the kids during cleaning. I speak pretty good Japanese but I had no idea wtf he was saying as he was speaking like a shop clerk - very fast and very formal. Took me a couple of mou ikkai for me to figure out he didn't want me distracting the kids.

That's when I realized I was truly in Japan.

tealparadise
June 30th, 2014, 11:05
Do a 0__________0 the whole time they're talking and then answer them with a single word in dictionary form.

Pnut
June 30th, 2014, 12:02
I once out argued/passive-agressived a JTE who demanded I call on students by name in her classes, but refused to make me a seating chart when I told her I didn't know all the names. We went around and around about it, but she never budged even though I felt like I was suggesting reasonable compromises ("I'll call on them if you make me a seating chart." "I can't read all the kanji, so let's have them make English name tags/cards."). She even got mad at one point when another JTE took pity on me and gave me a seating chart. It came to a head one day when she told me to call on the kids and I just said "No" in front of the class. From the look on my JTE's face, you'd think I'd slapped her. I regretted challenging her in front of the students, but I had tried to discuss it with her many times outside of class.

I guess I won, but it was very, very unpleasant and we didn't really stop arguing about it until the students graduated and she was transferred to another school.

uthinkimlost?
June 30th, 2014, 12:10
How is that filed under win?

mothy
June 30th, 2014, 12:17
Didn't have to let an unclean Japanese name slide across their lips. Sounds like a win to me.

Pnut
June 30th, 2014, 12:23
Well. I stood my ground. But that was about the only success of it.

uthinkimlost?
June 30th, 2014, 12:25
Why didn't you just ask the students their names? It's always nice to learn them anyway.

Jordaius
June 30th, 2014, 12:25
How is that filed under win?

Victory by attrition?

uthinkimlost?
June 30th, 2014, 12:27
Victory by attrition?

It would seem.

Pnut
June 30th, 2014, 12:30
Why didn't you just ask the students their names? It's always nice to learn them anyway.
I'm just really bad with names. I had been teaching these kids for more than a year and still hadn't managed to learn all the names despite having made a sincere effort. Her actual problem with me was that I wasn't living up to her expectations by not being able to memorise them all. The irony was that when I had a seating chart, I used it and got a lot better at the names in those classes because I could reference them all the time.

Jiggit
June 30th, 2014, 12:35
How many kids?

I'd have some sympathy for her if I didn't watch JTEs blatantly pick kids from the seating plan every other lesson.

Pnut
June 30th, 2014, 12:45
150 at the Junior High, with another 200+ if you count my elementary school.

coop52
June 30th, 2014, 13:43
I had 650+ students at my first school and still managed to learn a lot of their names.

You can always just call out their student numbers, too, if you can't manage to remember.

Jiggit
June 30th, 2014, 13:57
I learned most of their names last year... but that's cause I nabbed their pictures off the network and shoved them in anki. And it was still rough. I wish I weren't so terrible at names, it's a really useful skill.

Gizmotech
June 30th, 2014, 14:25
I had 650+ students at my first school and still managed to learn a lot of their names.

You can always just call out their student numbers, too, if you can't manage to remember.

Student numbers are awesome, especially if you actually learn numbers to faces but make it look like you're randomly pulling numbers out of your ass. I do it in class all the time, where the teacher tells me to choose the answering student, and I just run numbers through my head to keep the class random instead of answering in straight columns.

coop52
June 30th, 2014, 14:25
It helps if you give them nicknames in their head.

Jiggit
June 30th, 2014, 14:29
Unfortunately "bald idiot who likes baseball" or "girl who hides inside her own hair" could be any one of 10 students in any given class. I don't know how you can think of nicknames for classes of 40 when a lot of them have 0 distinct characteristics.

Jordaius
June 30th, 2014, 14:30
It helps if you give them nicknames in their head.

But you should really be using your telepathy to form a team of superheroes instead.

therealwindycity
June 30th, 2014, 14:34
"girl who hides inside her own hair"

LOL

therealwindycity
June 30th, 2014, 14:34
You have to figure out how to make that a mnemonic device on her actual name though.

Pnut
June 30th, 2014, 14:36
Numbers are a lifesaver, as is challenging the kids to janken matches to see who gets to answer. I can't always get away with that, though, because my school uses a point system to encourage the students to answer and we're supposed to call on students with fewer points over students with more points. I'd say I know a lot of my students' names, but it's hard for me to think of them quickly. Sometimes I would just gesture at them if I got desperate.

Truth be told, this wasn't the only issue this JTE and I had and I was pretty much just riding it out until she left.

Gizmotech
June 30th, 2014, 14:38
Mnemonic names for 斉藤 and 佐藤... Does not help when there are about 150 of them in my school.

Then you have like 4 斉藤 彩夏・綾香・彩夏 (ayaka) and sometimes they are even in the same class....

I just give up and recognize them by their faces and relative position in the class. Or say to hell with it and just use numbers.

Jiggit
June 30th, 2014, 14:43
my school uses a point system to encourage the students to answer

sigh.

Pnut
June 30th, 2014, 14:44
sigh.
Double sigh.

coop52
June 30th, 2014, 14:47
I usually give the kids nicknames by funny things they've said or written, appearance, or just random English names. I don't call them by those names, just use them long enough to remember that Make-love's real name is actually Kumi. It's easier with JHS kids since they still do funny stuff. A lot of my SHS kids have been Sleeps-a-lot-kun or Long-hair-in-a-scrunchie-chan.

Jiggit
June 30th, 2014, 14:52
Yeah I mean I don't usually have a problem remembering the kids who have some personality. The problem is trying to remember whether the zombie in front of me is yuuta or yuuto.

Shincantsen
July 1st, 2014, 00:14
One time two girls came up to me in the hall - one with personality and one without. I called the one by her name, and then the other one demanded that I say her name too. I had no idea. Woops.

Ananasboat
July 1st, 2014, 02:55
When in doubt, the girl is Aya-chan, and the boys are Tarou-kun.

coop52
July 1st, 2014, 08:12
Or just start calling out common last names. Guarantee that there's at least one Yamada or Tanaka in your class.

Jiggit
July 1st, 2014, 08:27
one without personality...demanded that I say her name too.

She actually spoke to you one time? That's a personality if I've ever seen one.

Just tell them you only remember kids who speak to you in English.

chikorita
July 1st, 2014, 08:56
I have about 3000 students (I go to an absurd number of schools). Even though we go to most of our schools about three times a year and we count a school as having "regular visits" if they have a visit from one of us once a month, my fellow ALT somehow magically remembers the names of all of the kids. He can do it anytime, anywhere- we're in town and we see someone leaning out a car window and waving as they go past, and he says, "Oh, hey, that was Ayaka-chan from so-and-so elementary school, remember, in Yamada-sensei's class?"

It's like witchcraft. I remember some names, but I also have to use the Japanese name-tags on their desks (which on the upside means that I'm now kick-ass at reading name kanji)

Jiggit
July 1st, 2014, 08:57
my fellow ALT somehow magically remembers the names of all of the kids. He can do it anytime, anywhere- we're in town and we see someone leaning out a car window and waving as they go past, and he says, "Oh, hey, that was Ayaka-chan from so-and-so elementary school, remember, in Yamada-sensei's class?"


I bet you a crisp man that he remembers the girls mostly.

jacklostinred
July 1st, 2014, 10:19
Currently in a perpetual fight with one of my JTEs. So far we have had 2 fights about stuff since the April. Turns out I am not alone and, since he is an obscure Japanese person who lacks tact, most people are not to keen on working with him.

I had a chat with my PA about him and the consensus seems to be that they are waiting out his retirement and trying to put him in schools where he won't be thrown from a 4th floor window.

Needless to say we have a strange relationship. Last week we were fighting and he refused to talk to me and this week we are going for lunch. I will keep you guys informed.

word
July 1st, 2014, 11:55
I bet you a crisp man that he remembers the girls mostly.
3915

I mean, who doesn't?

matt360
July 2nd, 2014, 15:08
The ALT at my school is currently engaged in battle with her supervisor. She's leaving next month, and she wants to contact her pred to give them a list of what she has to see if they'd be interested in buying anything or even just inheriting the stuff for free. Her supervisor has told her that she must throw everything away. The entire English and International departments have told this supervisor why that is stupid and wasteful, but she won't budge.

You all know the type too. One of those dainty little Japanese women who are in a perpetual state of panic. Ultra polite, but a complete bitch under the hood. Always shuffling or running and seems incapable of walking like a normal person. A real piece of shit.

Ini
July 2nd, 2014, 15:11
3932

Wafflehouse
July 2nd, 2014, 15:55
You all know the type too. One of those dainty little Japanese women who are in a perpetual state of panic. Ultra polite, but a complete bitch under the hood.

That type of person is common? I had run ins with like 3 of them here.

F**k, the two faced intensity of them just blew my mind.

Jiggit
July 2nd, 2014, 15:58
Oh you mean the women who make their own sound effects? Every morning for me starts with an ominous "yushu yushu yushu" as she shuffles up behind me to have a pointless meeting about things we've already discussed 5 times.

Gizmotech
July 2nd, 2014, 21:48
Fuck those bitches. Trying to look busy while doing sweet duck all! Useless tits the lot of em and they shouldn't have a fucking job.

Shincantsen
July 2nd, 2014, 22:44
Oh you mean the women who make their own sound effects? Every morning for me starts with an ominous "yushu yushu yushu" as she shuffles up behind me to have a pointless meeting about things we've already discussed 5 times.

yosh walking to the printer sitting down, aaaaaaah. yosh open a file where is my file huh I thought it was here where did I put it here? here? no, not here where is it where'd I put it yosh I found it. yosh open file waiting waiting this computer is slow yosh opened yosh printing oh the printer is loud huh oh no it didn't print right WHO CAN HELP ME WITH THE PRINTER?

A constant stream of quiet stream of consciousness Japanese only interrupted by 'yosh's or cries for help. One in every office.

Wafflehouse
July 3rd, 2014, 08:52
Fuck those bitches. Trying to look busy while doing sweet duck all! Useless tits the lot of em and they shouldn't have a fucking job.

My Jimu runs EVERYWHERE and speaks ultra politely. He's a nice dude but when someone asks him to do something he bolts over and does it.

webstaa
July 3rd, 2014, 09:13
Jimu's tend to be pretty good, because they end up having to cut through everybody else's BS and get the shit done themselves. My new VP (for this year) yelled at the Jimu in front of nearly all the teachers because she was talking on the phone for 5-10 minutes, and not sounding super formal and businesslike. She was on the phone with the head of the BoE.

The fallout was hilarious to watch. The BoE president is a 70 year old, take no shit and give no shit, wants to retire and travel Japan and the US guy. And he is really smilely and laid back. But he ripped the new VP a new asshole. And he did it in front of all of the teachers and the Principal too.

kenkennif
July 8th, 2014, 10:36
It's a pain when the JTEs spend an entire class period shouting at a class while you just stand at the side not understanding why or what is going on wishing you could sink into the floor.

Ini
July 8th, 2014, 10:41
how long have you been here?

Jiggit
July 8th, 2014, 10:42
Don't bother, Ini. The kenken train has no brakes.