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hedgington
October 22nd, 2014, 08:54
It's been a while since I've seen anyone mention applying for a second stint on JET, going back into the archive in fact. I must admit I was disappointed to not receive an interview last year - not that being an ex-JET makes that a right at all, but it made me wonder just how different the selection process may be towards potential returners. Can anyone offer any further insight?


Whilst for first-timers neither formal teaching skills nor Japanese are a necessity, we know they are looked upon well in an application. Could it be that second-timers generally must have a formal teaching certificate and reasonable level of Japanese... presumably anyone who has or knows someone who has been accepted for a second time on JET might be able to shed some light on this?


It seems obvious that just saying you want to come back because you had such a great experience the first time around is not going to get you anywhere. I endeavoured to show a clear purpose and career goal that made a return to JET desirable, but mainly what I could offer the programme. Apparently my perception of what they are looking for in a 2nd-time JET is a bit off, but I'm going to give it another shot.


Also, getting a bit more conspiratorial here, is there anything to suggest that they might reference our previous performance on JET towards a second-time application? I'm confident that I was a good and reliable ALT, but there was at least one occasion when I may have pissed my supervisor off. Have I managed to end up on some sort of CLAIR blacklist?!?


Finally, are there any other ex-JETs applying to return this time around?


Good luck all.

miamicoordinator
October 22nd, 2014, 11:08
It's been a while since I've seen anyone mention applying for a second stint on JET, going back into the archive in fact. I must admit I was disappointed to not receive an interview last year - not that being an ex-JET makes that a right at all, but it made me wonder just how different the selection process may be towards potential returners. Can anyone offer any further insight?


Whilst for first-timers neither formal teaching skills nor Japanese are a necessity, we know they are looked upon well in an application. Could it be that second-timers generally must have a formal teaching certificate and reasonable level of Japanese... presumably anyone who has or knows someone who has been accepted for a second time on JET might be able to shed some light on this?


It seems obvious that just saying you want to come back because you had such a great experience the first time around is not going to get you anywhere. I endeavoured to show a clear purpose and career goal that made a return to JET desirable, but mainly what I could offer the programme. Apparently my perception of what they are looking for in a 2nd-time JET is a bit off, but I'm going to give it another shot.


Also, getting a bit more conspiratorial here, is there anything to suggest that they might reference our previous performance on JET towards a second-time application? I'm confident that I was a good and reliable ALT, but there was at least one occasion when I may have pissed my supervisor off. Have I managed to end up on some sort of CLAIR blacklist?!?


Finally, are there any other ex-JETs applying to return this time around?


Good luck all.

The review process for everyone is the same. Being a 2nd time applicant has no bearing on how you are scored.

In 2013, i sent 2 second time applicants. They were a married couple, and actually were able to be placed very close to each other.

There is no internal CLAIR blacklist either. 1/2 of jets would not be asked to recontract if pissing off their supervisors meant a blacklist.

There is no way to know why you didnt receive an interview this time around since dc does not share that information. The review process is rough because essentially, nearly 50% of applicants wont get an interview(usa numbers, dunno about other countries). Maybe it was that last year the competition was tighter than the last time you applied. Maybe you accidentally forgot a piece of the application? Who knows.

Rest assured, there are no extra requirements for 2nd time applicants. Technically, you should have an upper hand since you have been through the process before and have at least some formal teaching experience, which many applicants lack.

Best of luck this time around,

-MC

word
October 22nd, 2014, 11:10
1/2 of jets would not be asked to recontract if pissing off their supervisors meant a blacklist.


LOL word

I am living proof.

Jiggit
October 22nd, 2014, 11:13
1/2 of jets would not be asked to recontract if pissing off their supervisors meant a blacklist.


I think that's a conservative estimate.

miamicoordinator
October 22nd, 2014, 11:14
I think that's a conservative estimate.

Yeah, i was trying to be nice :p

krayziesensei
October 22nd, 2014, 21:21
I'm a previous JET applying to return this year. I was short-listed last time around, but we'll have to see how it goes.

Gizmotech
October 23rd, 2014, 12:48
My friend was a previous jet and has no teaching experience and got in three years ago.

Jiggit
October 23rd, 2014, 12:50
My friend was a previous jet and has no teaching experience

lol

word
October 23rd, 2014, 12:54
Wicket was a two-time JET and probably could've told you something about the process, but I imagine she's died of old age by now.

uthinkimlost?
October 23rd, 2014, 12:57
My friend was a previous jet and has no teaching experience and got in three years ago.

That is both awesome and terribly sad.


Wicket was a two-time JET and probably could've told you something about the process, but I imagine she's died of old age by now.

She was also a nutter, so I wouldn't trust her POV too much.

Gizmotech
October 23rd, 2014, 13:05
Well seriously, he taught es so in neve actually really taught, and when he applied for jet the second time it was so he could move back to japan with his wife and son.

He used jet round two as a stepping stone for getting life started back up in Japan and has moved into much better work.

wicket
November 4th, 2014, 19:27
word and uthinkimlost are correct - i am both ancient and crazy, however for what it's worth to the OP, my interview panel grilled me regarding how i could possibly get any level of satisfaction out of being an assistant teacher having had a previous stint on JET and 10 years following that in my own classroom. other than that, the rest of the interview was pretty much the same as the first time around.
i don't know. i start feeling nostalgic for osaka and come on here to help out a noob (well, new to doing things a second time, anyway) and find that word and uthinkimlost are still pining for my cranky old lady comments. so sweet.

JET ProgramCoordinator SF
November 5th, 2014, 09:33
Hedgington, if it means anything, I think that returning JETs have an even EASIER time getting into the program due to their past experience. It's hard to argue to not hire someone who already has done exactly what the job you're looking to fill is. If you didn't make it to the interview round it could be that your application was incomplete (for example, you didn't turn in community college transcripts). Even though you turned in a complete application the first time you applied for JET doesn't mean you could have accidentally overlooked something this time around. Unfortunately the Embassy does not divulge why someone did or did not make it to the interview round, so you won't know why you didn't make it. My only advice would be to be damn sure that everything is in order before you mail the package to DC.


word and uthinkimlost are correct - i am both ancient and crazy, however for what it's worth to the OP, my interview panel grilled me regarding how i could possibly get any level of satisfaction out of being an assistant teacher having had a previous stint on JET and 10 years following that in my own classroom. other than that, the rest of the interview was pretty much the same as the first time around.

This. From our perspective, an ex-JET reapplying to the program has both strong pros and cons. The pros are that you've already done the job so you're experienced and theoretically should be a better, more informed JET this time around. The cons are that your interviewers may give pause as to exactly why you want to go on JET again. Usually alumni who reapply to JET are older (in their 30's) and the panel may wonder what you have been doing since you came back from JET. If you have a full-time career, why would you want to go back on JET? Is it really for the kids and for intercultural exchange, or is there some other hidden issue that's driving your decision? If you don't have a full-time career after you came back from JET, why not? We want to see JET alumni being very proactive members of the US-Japan relationship-building community. Were you an active alumni? If you weren't an active alumni, that may give us pause as to whether or not we want to reinvest in you on the JET Program. These are just a few examples of what could be running through an interviewer's mind. So your experience as a JET alumni can really be a double-edged sword; while we may feel confident in your ability to execute your duties, that may lead us to focus more on your underlying motivations.

Swmrgrl
February 2nd, 2015, 11:49
I'm a previous JET (2005-2007) and have applied again. I've got an interview, so hopefully it pans out for me again.

BifCarbet
February 4th, 2015, 11:32
I was a JET ALT from 2009 to 2012. I just applied to be a CIR as soon as I became eligible to apply again. I got an interview. It was today.

caffeinedreamer
February 8th, 2015, 02:16
Do you have to wait three years before reapplying or two years? I mean, if you are successful with the former there's technically a four year gap, whereas the latter means there's a three year gap in total.

Zolrak 22
February 8th, 2015, 03:17
I was a JET ALT from 2009 to 2012. I just applied to be a CIR as soon as I became eligible to apply again. I got an interview. It was today.
How did it go?

Viral
February 8th, 2015, 03:44
I was a JET ALT from 2009 to 2012. I just applied to be a CIR as soon as I became eligible to apply again. I got an interview. It was today.

How much Japanese did you know before starting in 09?

BifCarbet
February 8th, 2015, 15:06
The interview went well, thanks!

I knew an intermediate level of Japanese when I started the first time. I wasn't fluent, but I could, for example, go to the post office and ask questions about sending a package somewhere.

BifCarbet
February 8th, 2015, 15:06
And, 3 year gap. I returned home in 8/12, and I applied again in 10/14 for start in 8/15.
That may not be policy though. It might change year by year.

jetting?
July 11th, 2015, 21:14
This isn't really quite the same question...but...

Is there a good chance of being selected for JET if you turned down JET for something else? (In my case, I turned down JET for the Critical Language Scholarship and during the year I would have done JET, I'll be at Inter-University Center). Or do they look down on that?

Thanks!

word
July 11th, 2015, 23:10
As long as you declined before you received your placement, I believe it has no real influence on your acceptance.

patjs
July 14th, 2015, 23:59
Does anyone know any examples of the kinds of work CIRs have done after finishing up?

I am entertaining the insane idea of reapplying as a CIR and going back. My only concern is what I would do after the program ended. Is it a pipedream to hope I'd be doing anything other than ALTing or being the token gaijin at some sort of government office?

word
July 15th, 2015, 00:03
TBH the only way I'd stay here that long-term is if I were working in post-secondary education or running my own business of some sort.

I've met folks who've done both, and they generally seem relatively happy.

Lifer ALTs, on the other hand, are some of the most bitter, broken people I've evar met.

patjs
July 15th, 2015, 00:29
I refuse to ever be an ALT again if I have a choice. It is kind of nice that at least in Japan it's always there as a last resort/security blanket.

BifCarbet
July 15th, 2015, 00:47
One former-CIR friend works at the Japanese Culture Center (something like that) at a very prestigious US university. One went to work for a non-profit in Tokyo. One went to work as a PC(?) for CLAIR in Tokyo. One works in Japanese client relations or something for a MAJOR sporting goods company in the US. They all are doing very well, but I'm sure there are plenty of examples of CIRs who went on to do nothing.

Gizmotech
July 15th, 2015, 03:59
I'm gonna say that a CIR should be writing their own ticket while they're doing their CIR work and getting their N1 Japanese. I wish I could say I knew one who went onto do something great, but the most that any of my prefectures have done is become a CLAIR PC.

BifCarbet
July 15th, 2015, 04:08
I'm gonna say that a CIR should be writing their own ticket while they're doing their CIR work and getting their N1 Japanese. I wish I could say I knew one who went onto do something great, but the most that any of my prefectures have done is become a CLAIR PC.

That's a pretty good gig itself, and big companies like to recruit them, from what I'm told.

And yeah, I am going to be schmoozing non-stop for at least a year when I start in a few weeks.

patjs
July 16th, 2015, 03:22
I guess at this point considering my Japanese level and work experience I might be able to just go the traditional way and apply to jobs rather than try to be a CIR. It's been about 4 years since I left the program but my understanding was that CIR positions sometimes ended up being a mostly ALT type- position anyway with some random translating thrown in- do those still exist?

BifCarbet
July 16th, 2015, 06:44
Those do still exist. They're not common though. Also, I think your experience would help you get placed somewhere important, but... JET. If I were in your position (by the way, I was an ALT and I'm about to start as a CIR, but don't have your experience), I would try to go straight into a real job, if you can.

uthinkimlost?
July 16th, 2015, 07:42
Don't forget you'd be taking a pay cut, too. New JETs get a lot less pay and fewer bennies than in previous years.

BifCarbet
July 16th, 2015, 08:22
About 1000 yen less per workday, and only in Year 1. CIRs pay Japanese income tax, too, though.

uthinkimlost?
July 16th, 2015, 08:33
About 1000 yen less per workday, and only in Year 1. CIRs pay Japanese income tax, too, though.

His (https://nihonomnom.wordpress.com/2012/11/20/how-much-you-can-expect-to-be-paid-on-the-jet-programme/)monthly take home is over 5 man less than mine, accounting for the rent differences.

Also, the income listed on the JET site previously was AFTER taxes. Since the change, it is BEFORE taxes. People in their fourth year will just be making the same I did when I started. That -can- make a fairly large difference.

"JET participants who started on the Programme in 2011 or earlier receive approximately 3.6 million yen per year after Japanese income and resident taxes are imposed.

In line with revised application guidelines, JET participants who arrive in Japan from 2012 will receive approximately 3.36 million yen in their first year of appointment, approximately 3.6 million yen in their second year of appointment, approximately 3.9 million yen for their third appointment, and for those appointed for a fourth and fifth year, approximately 3.96 million yen for each year. JET participants arriving in Japan in 2012 or later who will have Japanese income and resident taxes imposed on them will have to pay these taxes from their remuneration."

Long story short, Patjs, if you don't need visa sponsorship, there's not a lot of reason to do JET again.

BifCarbet
July 16th, 2015, 08:47
His (https://nihonomnom.wordpress.com/2012/11/20/how-much-you-can-expect-to-be-paid-on-the-jet-programme/)monthly take home is over 5 man less than mine, accounting for the rent differences.

Also, the income listed on the JET site previously was AFTER taxes. Since the change, it is BEFORE taxes. People in their fourth year will just be making the same I did when I started. That -can- make a fairly large difference.

"JET participants who started on the Programme in 2011 or earlier receive approximately 3.6 million yen per year after Japanese income and resident taxes are imposed.

In line with revised application guidelines, JET participants who arrive in Japan from 2012 will receive approximately 3.36 million yen in their first year of appointment, approximately 3.6 million yen in their second year of appointment, approximately 3.9 million yen for their third appointment, and for those appointed for a fourth and fifth year, approximately 3.96 million yen for each year. JET participants arriving in Japan in 2012 or later who will have Japanese income and resident taxes imposed on them will have to pay these taxes from their remuneration."

Long story short, Patjs, if you don't need visa sponsorship, there's not a lot of reason to do JET again.

But don't income and residence taxes not kick in until year three for American ALTs? I did mention that CIRs have to pay taxes. Didn't Patjs say he's from Ohio or something?
The 3.6 million yen was after taxes? That doesn't quite make sense. They used to pay JETs from other countries more than US JETs to make up for the taxes they had to pay?
2011 US ALT was 3.6 before or after taxes (no income tax; no difference). 2015 CIR is 3.36 before taxes. Am I off on this?

uthinkimlost?
July 16th, 2015, 08:55
But don't income and residence taxes not kick in until year three for American ALTs? I did mention that CIRs have to pay taxes. Didn't Patjs say he's from Ohio or something?
The 3.6 million yen was after taxes? That doesn't quite make sense. They used to pay JETs from other countries more than US JETs to make up for the taxes they had to pay?
2011 US ALT was 3.6 before or after taxes (no income tax; no difference). 2015 CIR is 3.36 before taxes. Am I off on this?

That is correct. Real pay per JET varied by nation. I've actually kinda suspected that was part of the reason for the glut of Murricans, but I don't know.

I don't remember where patjs is from, but even if he is from America, he's taking a paycut. Couple that with a spouse that is unlikely to accept the fratboy housing lifestyle so many JETs love. The value of the Yen has tanked even in Japan since he was here. A lot of the support systems have been gutted. JET is coasting on prestige right now.

TBH, I'm not sure why you chose JET. Assuming you have N2 or N1, there are much better paying jobs.

BifCarbet
July 16th, 2015, 09:02
Oh yes. It is definitely a pay cut from being an ALT four to seven years ago. No dispute here.

And yeah, I know what you mean, but that's pretty presumptuous. It's not always easy to find a job. Everything I was looking for here was like $30,000, and rent where I live for just a room in a house is like 800-1000 bucks. Any employer I contacted in Japan wouldn't even talk to me because I didn't have working permission. Applying to be a CIR was a safety net in case nothing else came up, and...

(Additional info: I work now, but I hate my job.)

uthinkimlost?
July 16th, 2015, 09:09
Oh yes. It is definitely a pay cut from being an ALT four to seven years ago. No dispute here.

And yeah, I know what you mean, but that's pretty presumptuous. It's not always easy to find a job. Everything I was looking for here was like $30,000, and rent where I live for just a room in a house is like 800-1000 bucks. Any employer I contacted in Japan wouldn't even talk to me because I didn't have working permission. Applying to be a CIR was a safety net in case nothing else came up, and...

Not presumptuous, more curious.

I'm actually here for relatively similar reasons. (2010 was a rough one.)

Though, I can honestly say I wouldn't have done JET if things were as they are now. At least with Interac and Altia you get a bit of sway in where you go, and it doesn't take 9 months to finish the process. You just miss out on the free flight.

Gizmotech
July 16th, 2015, 09:19
But don't income and residence taxes not kick in until year three for American ALTs? I did mention that CIRs have to pay taxes. Didn't Patjs say he's from Ohio or something?
The 3.6 million yen was after taxes? That doesn't quite make sense. They used to pay JETs from other countries more than US JETs to make up for the taxes they had to pay?
2011 US ALT was 3.6 before or after taxes (no income tax; no difference). 2015 CIR is 3.36 before taxes. Am I off on this?

It used to be all JETs were paid 3.6 million yen / year regardless of country origin. Util and I are in the last year of that program, where it was a constant 3.6 over the whole term, and the non Americans pays were bumped up. (I actually make 3.9mil on paper w/ 300,000 going towards tax responsibilities)


Oh yes. It is definitely a pay cut from being an ALT four to seven years ago. No dispute here.

And yeah, I know what you mean, but that's pretty presumptuous. It's not always easy to find a job. Everything I was looking for here was like $30,000, and rent where I live for just a room in a house is like 800-1000 bucks. Any employer I contacted in Japan wouldn't even talk to me because I didn't have working permission. Applying to be a CIR was a safety net in case nothing else came up, and...

(Additional info: I work now, but I hate my job.)

You've got a weaker Yen, which is huge. I mean it's noticeably harder to live here now, as compared to three years ago (Price of food goods, home appliances have been going up). This doesn't even include any financial responsibilities you might have at home. Then you add the reduced salary in first year and second year (About a total 5K pay cut) and it starts to get really steep.


Great safety net to get you here with a VISA, but it's certainly a worse ride regardless when you were here before.

BifCarbet
July 16th, 2015, 09:20
Not presumptuous, more curious.

I'm actually here for relatively similar reasons. (2010 was a rough one.)

Though, I can honestly say I wouldn't have done JET if things were as they are now. At least with Interac and Altia you get a bit of sway in where you go, and it doesn't take 9 months to finish the process. You just miss out on the free flight.

Yeah good points, but I didn't want to do the English "teaching" thing again. I also got the exact placement I wanted. Lucky, but I'll take it.

webstaa
July 16th, 2015, 13:00
But don't income and residence taxes not kick in until year three for American ALTs?

IIRC the only taxes that US ALTs are excluded from are the Local Inhabitants Tax. Which you have to pay starting your third year. 2013 US ALT was 3.3 million gross. IIRC my net was closer to 3 million. (Accounting for taxes, unemployment, and premiums.)

patjs
July 17th, 2015, 00:17
I'm from Illinois actually.

And yes I wasn't thinking about the pay and tax changes. It's not quite as good a deal as it was when I started, and if I had to pay taxes from the beginning it's definitely not all that attractive.

I had the same experience as BifCarbet though coming back- the salaries for lower entry level jobs are not very good and cost of living is actually higher here than in a lot of parts of Japan. You're looking at $1,000 minimum for a 1 br apartment, often even more than that. Not to mention 2 cars are essential.

Anyway, the more I think about it the more I realize there's not a lot of reason to do JET again.

Gizmotech
July 17th, 2015, 05:33
I'd only recommend it if you needed a starter back in the country. Otherwise total waste of time.

BifCarbet
July 17th, 2015, 05:40
I'd only recommend it if it would improve your circumstances.

patjs
July 20th, 2015, 23:04
Yeah, I'd have work permission as a spouse of a jeeperneezer so now that I think about it rationally there's not much reason at all to do it.

BifCarbet
July 21st, 2015, 00:04
Yeah, I'd have work permission as a spouse of a jeeperneezer so now that I think about it rationally there's not much reason at all to do it.

helps
I'm sure you don't need JET.

GodInStrafeMode
September 10th, 2015, 15:55
Does anyone know any examples of the kinds of work CIRs have done after finishing up?

I am entertaining the insane idea of reapplying as a CIR and going back. My only concern is what I would do after the program ended. Is it a pipedream to hope I'd be doing anything other than ALTing or being the token gaijin at some sort of government office?

There's tonnes of them. I currently work with 2 ex-CIRs and we have nothing to do with teaching English. I know a guy who ended up at Sony (investor relations), a few have started their own businesses (and not just freelancing either) and you also see quite a few that end up with jobs at domestic universities. Guess it's also going to come down to what other skills you have besides the fact that you can speak good Japanese.
Having said that, the CIR position does give you a good skill-set in that you're usually very good at multitasking and could pretty much transition into any Japanese office fairly smoothly.
On the flip side, ex-CIRs that end up returning to their own countries do tend to get better jobs imho. Not always the case, but it's hardly a rare sight to see ex-CIRs working in embassy/ consulate positions back in their home countries.
Would only really do JET a second time if you were applying for the CIR position as a former ALT. Just remember though, you are essentially playing Russian roulette with what type of placement you will end up getting. *waves at Kochi CIRs*

Besides, ALTs that reapply as ALTs generally scare the hell out of me :o