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weepinbell
April 22nd, 2015, 01:19
It's so hard. How do I learn it....? :'( I can't remember it without attaching at least one reading to it, so Heisig doesn't work for me... and repetition is pretty slow progress, but at least it helps me retain. I've learned a bit over 100 since August (and that's not even all readings in some cases...). After I'm done with my Genki I stuff, I'm gonna invest in Genki II, but I'm trying to figure out how to supplement it, too. Would maybe be useful to slowly start to work my way through the first few grades of jouyou Kanji? Would love some suggestions.

BifCarbet
April 22nd, 2015, 02:27
It might sound like lazy advice, but it's how I've done it. I just read stuff. When I see kanji I don't know, I guess at the meaning and reading, and look it up at classic.jisho.org
It works better when I'm in Japan and get all kinds of exposure, but the internet is handy.

gibbity
April 22nd, 2015, 02:39
Along with Bif, I found the best way for me was buying a manga and reading through it with BifCarbet's strategy. I started with Dragonball, since most of those had the hirigana in them anyways, but having something you WANT to read and mixing that with study really seemed to make the task seem more managable to me. Just find something you actually want to read, and find it in japanese.

weepinbell
April 22nd, 2015, 03:01
yeah I'm trying to make it through a Shimajiro book my Japanese prof gave me and it's slow progress lol. That's not even kanji, really just grammar/vocab, but I keep telling myself I need to finish it before starting something new! I guess picking up a Doraemon manga or something might be good for some low-level Kanji stuff, though.

I'm sure the constant exposure helps SO much... I just need to force myself to get as much exposure as I can I guess before I'm dropped over there with no other choice haha.

x_stei
April 22nd, 2015, 03:23
This post is made with the assumption that you are a beginner at Kanji.

Kanji is such an enigma and it's so hard to make shit stick. Whatever kanji writing skills I learnt from the Genki I workbook has mostly been forgotten.

I agree with beef car bay, I think immersion is obviously the best way to learn kanji. Maybe there is a way to simulate this. Go to local Japanese stores and check out the books and the manga. Read magazines in things you're interested in. My all time favourite way that I have learnt kanji is to watch dramas with Japanese subtitles on them and listen carefully to each dialogue as you go. Sometimes multiple watches are necessary. Also, variety shows are big help because often times they have subtitles for funny phrases or just labels of people and topics at hand.

If you're into Jpop, romanize lyrics. You can find original kanji lyrics at http://www.uta-net.com/. And then try one song you have heard or like. Or romanize one where romaji lyrics are readily available. I used to do this alot and it made me more confident in my Japanese skills.

weepinbell
April 22nd, 2015, 03:59
Yeah, I only know like 100 lol. I guess recognition is probably more important than writing anyway. Writing really helps me memorize, it's just very tedious sometimes... the Kanji from Genki though has really stuck because of it, though.

I think I'll try out the variety show thing, though, and definitely transcribing/translating songs since at least it has me writing things/hopefully committing them to memory?

Thank yooou

BifCarbet
April 22nd, 2015, 07:25
Oh yeah, x_stei, the music one is great, especially if you add karaoke to it. I learned a lot of words in context, and the kanji for them by singing songs I like at karaoke.

webstaa
April 22nd, 2015, 08:20
I started with workbooks, like the Genki I and II, then I dove straight into writing everything I could in kanji when I studied - new vocab? Write it in kanji, write the furigana over it and then write the definition. I learned about 500 or so that way. Then I started to translate everything that crossed my desk at my main school - which gives you a lot of education vocab, but not a lot else. At my max I probably could read about 700 or so, which was more than enough for daily life. Although I fell off the study wagon about a year ago and haven't been bothered to study much at all since then.

Jiggit
April 22nd, 2015, 09:02
If you're not using some kind of SRS software then you're going to have real trouble memorizing that much data, and you'll probably forget most of it the minute you stop doing it every day. Have you tried using Heisig with Anki or kanji.koohii.com? I don't believe you can say it "doesn't work for you" if you've only learned 100 kanji so far. It's the kind of thing that starts to make more and more sense the further you get into it. Once you get about 500-1000 kanji in your mind starts making all these little connections and suddenly it all starts to make a lot more sense.

Being able to associate meanings with certain kanji really helps you to understand kanji compound words and learning them by particle order really helps you get the internal logic. It'll help you with readings later too, as similar kanji often have very similar readings. I can't imagine trying to learn kanji by any other way, tbh it sounds like completely frustrating agony.

Gizmotech
April 22nd, 2015, 11:37
Some type of srs is nescessary to keep it in the head, combined with exposure.

If you can do it yourself, go the anki way with some heisig and then a lot of reading practice.

If you don't want to do it yourself and cna afford to toss 100$ at it, sign up for wanikani and do their system for a year.

x_stei
April 22nd, 2015, 12:28
Oh yeah, x_stei, the music one is great, especially if you add karaoke to it. I learned a lot of words in context, and the kanji for them by singing songs I like at karaoke.

This is how I learnt/learned hiragana.

And yes, you can learn a lot about pronunciation in different contexts and even some rare pronunciations for words when you pay attention to song lyrics. I've obviously spent/spended way too much time listening to Jpop.

Ebi
April 22nd, 2015, 16:46
KanjiBox is my preferred SRS method for kanji. The online version is free and the app is reasonably priced.

I think learning kanji in context is absolutely critical, but SRS methods are great for retaining the knowledge and differentiating between similar looking kanji. It also can test you on meanings, vocab, readings, and fill in the blanks, which is why I favor KanjiBox over Anki. But go with whatever you like best.

Gizmotech
April 22nd, 2015, 16:52
I used to use kanjibox, before anki. Kanjibox just is not a good training tool. Great testing tool, but for learning it just seems inferior all around.

Ebi
April 22nd, 2015, 18:32
I'll give you that. I would definitely not recommend it if you're a beginner, but it's good for testing recognition. I already had a pretty solid grasp of kanji before I started using it.

weepinbell
April 22nd, 2015, 20:45
Yea I should probably force myself to use an SRS but right now it's really not working for me... Not to say it eventually won't though because you're right there's really just too many. I tried Heisig but it really confused/frustrated me since it didn't have any readings attached to it. I just wanna at least take a reading or 2 out of it lol. I guess I could do that on the side though.

I'll check out kanji box and I heard wanikani is good? I signed up for the beta so I'll hopefully be able to try it out soon. I think the hardest part right now is figuring out some solid methods and sticking to them with consistency...

johnny
April 22nd, 2015, 23:25
I'm not great with kanji, but I kind of like the Wanikani method of learning radicals. It's been the most effective for me. For me the kanji for new, "新" is stand (立) + tree (木) + axe (斤). For me, breaking it down like this really helps me learn these much faster.

I also agree with Jiggs though that it's helpful to know the meaning behind the kanji. For me, if I don't know the meaning behind the kanji, it just looks like a bunch of squiggly lines.

coop52
April 23rd, 2015, 00:52
I used to use the White Rabbit flash cards along with reading pretty much everything I could. Anki works as well, but I am lazy about setting up decks. I like renshuu.org since it's free and doesn't require an extra app.

weepinbell
April 23rd, 2015, 01:51
I'm not great with kanji, but I kind of like the Wanikani method of learning radicals. It's been the most effective for me. For me the kanji for new, "新" is stand (立) + tree (木) + axe (斤). For me, breaking it down like this really helps me learn these much faster.

I also agree with Jiggs though that it's helpful to know the meaning behind the kanji. For me, if I don't know the meaning behind the kanji, it just looks like a bunch of squiggly lines.

Ohh yeah, when I actually know the radicals, it's definitely easier for me to process more complex Kanji so I'll definitely give wanikani a shot.


I used to use the White Rabbit flash cards along with reading pretty much everything I could. Anki works as well, but I am lazy about setting up decks. I like renshuu.org since it's free and doesn't require an extra app.

Thanks for suggesting white rabbit I think I might invest in the first pack. I think a big reason on why SRS doesn't work for me is because so much of it is on a screen, and I just don't process things well like that... I've always retained so much more when I'm doing something tangibly/actively, so hopefully those could be a good solution?

coop52
April 23rd, 2015, 09:38
Sure, as long as you do the method they recommend where you have different piles or whatever. I forget the details, but it's a way to make sure you review the cards every once in a while. Get a little card case at the 100 yen. The one they sell on their site is the exact same but costs like 800.

acpc2203
April 23rd, 2015, 12:35
I used Anki and reading to learn Kanji. I was about N2 level (~1000 kanji) but I slacked off and forgot a bunch, plus a bunch of the kunyomi and onyomi from the ones I remember. My goal is to pass N1 when I get back from JET so I just started studying again, though I feel the grammar will be much harder, I think I have maybe N3 level grammar :/.

taysukidesu
April 29th, 2015, 01:00
Do Wanikani. Just do it. The first two weeks are awful because there's really nothing in the SRS system, but after level 4 or 5 (so, about a month) it really picks up.

I tried Heisig on Anki, no good. I tried Genki, no good. I even went to a Japanese language school for four months, no good. Could not identify kanji for the life of me.
Now, that doesn't mean I couldn't read. Reading stuff aimed at learners was easy, because I'd memorized a lot of words, but I couldn't read anything new because I didn't know readings and thusly, could not learn new words without a ton of effort. I was one of the people who argued that you should just learn "through immersion" but it's shitty. That's how you learn vocabulary and alternative readings, but you have to have a base, and Wanikani gives that to you.

At the very least, pay for one month after you finish the trial and then decide if you want to commit. I am hooked. It's a shame it took me so long to come around...

Edit// I also write the kanji/vocabulary down in a notebook when I review, whether I'm at my laptop or using my phone. Once for the reading and once for the meaning.

weepinbell
April 29th, 2015, 01:44
Do Wanikani. Just do it. The first two weeks are awful because there's really nothing in the SRS system, but after level 4 or 5 (so, about a month) it really picks up.

I tried Heisig on Anki, no good. I tried Genki, no good. I even went to a Japanese language school for four months, no good. Could not identify kanji for the life of me.
Now, that doesn't mean I couldn't read. Reading stuff aimed at learners was easy, because I'd memorized a lot of words, but I couldn't read anything new because I didn't know readings and thusly, could not learn new words without a ton of effort. I was one of the people who argued that you should just learn "through immersion" but it's shitty. That's how you learn vocabulary and alternative readings, but you have to have a base, and Wanikani gives that to you.

At the very least, pay for one month after you finish the trial and then decide if you want to commit. I am hooked. It's a shame it took me so long to come around...

Edit// I also write the kanji/vocabulary down in a notebook when I review, whether I'm at my laptop or using my phone. Once for the reading and once for the meaning.

Awesome, just registered my account there. :)

I think I'm in the same boat as you were starting out. I can recognize like 100-150 characters right now through repetition, but I know veeery little about radicals and readings. Would help to be able to figure out how to look up kanji that way instead of just being totally lost...

x_stei
April 29th, 2015, 02:05
Awesome, just registered my account there. :)

I think I'm in the same boat as you were starting out. I can recognize like 100-150 characters right now through repetition, but I know veeery little about radicals and readings. Would help to be able to figure out how to look up kanji that way instead of just being totally lost...

Here is a short guide on how to look up kanji using radicals on jisho.org.

1. Identify the radical of the kanji you're looking up.
2. Figure out how many strokes it takes to write that radical.
3. Figure out how many strokes it takes the write the whole character/Kanji.
4. Head to jisho.org
5. Underneath jisho and to the left of the search bar, click on "radicals".
6. The radical "chart" will pop up below the search bar. It is ordered in ascending number of strokes for each radical. Click on the radical according to the number of strokes it takes to write it.
7. Another area above the radical chart will pop up with kanji written with that radical. Find the number of strokes it takes to write the whole character, that kanji should be listed. Click on it and append "#kanji" to the search bar and it should lead you to an encyclpedic page of kunyomi, onyomi and stroke order.

Let me know if any of this was hard to understand and I can clarify with an example.

Does anyone know why some of the kanji listed are grey and some are black? Is it because the grey ones are not part of the 1006 kanji for native elementary school students?

Ananasboat
April 29th, 2015, 12:16
I use jisho.org to look up kanji all the time. It's a great website.

x, they just recently reno'd the website. Everything in on the left of the searchbar now, but it's all clearly labeled. As for the black and grey I think it's the joyo kanji that you learn up to high school.

BifCarbet
April 29th, 2015, 13:25
classic.jisho.org if you prefer the old site, like me

taysukidesu
April 29th, 2015, 22:09
classic.jisho.org if you prefer the old site, like me

YOU'RE MY HERO

BifCarbet
April 30th, 2015, 01:10
YOU'RE MY HERO

Humbled.

x_stei
April 30th, 2015, 02:29
I use jisho.org to look up kanji all the time. It's a great website.

x, they just recently reno'd the website. Everything in on the left of the searchbar now, but it's all clearly labeled. As for the black and grey I think it's the joyo kanji that you learn up to high school.

Okay A, I'm a little bit confused, but that's okay. Regarding the black and grey kanji: that makes sense.

classic.jisho.org just screams USABILITY, but even classier would be http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1C, the database jisho.org was based on.

BifCarbet
April 30th, 2015, 05:13
I just got wanikani and started the first session. It reminds me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_orL8BFFqo

Is that all this is? Just giving radicals names and saying, "You can remember power by thinking of a dude flexing his arm!"

x_stei
April 30th, 2015, 05:54
You know, I thought that too! It seems childish, but you don't know which methods work for people.

BifCarbet
April 30th, 2015, 06:36
You know, I thought that too! It seems childish, but you don't know which methods work for people.

Word. I'm not calling it stupid. I just don't think it suits me. I'm wondering if maybe that's just one phase of a more comprehensive approach.

Gizmotech
April 30th, 2015, 06:38
Word. I'm not calling it stupid. I just don't think it suits me. I'm wondering if maybe that's just one phase of a more comprehensive approach.

Give me sometime and I'll write up a good explanation Ina few hours.

Just keep doing the boring ass reviews for the time being

Frap
April 30th, 2015, 06:51
I just got wanikani and started the first session. It reminds me of this:

Is that all this is? Just giving radicals names and saying, "You can remember power by thinking of a dude flexing his arm!"

You remembered it, didn't you?! ;) I think mnemonics are great! They definitely work for me. I actually started a paid sub a couple of days ago 'cause I've got high hopes for it.

taysukidesu
April 30th, 2015, 06:59
Most of their mnemonics are really stupid, but I find they usually inspire me to think of a different story (that isn't stupid and is more relatable to me) based off key words or a concept they have in their own.

The radicals are pretty straightforward through level 11 (where I currently am) and don't really need mnemonics in my honest opinion, but I guess for a complete newbie to Japanese writing, they're necessary to learn them all.

BifCarbet
April 30th, 2015, 06:59
Haha yeah, but to be fair, I already knew it. I just think it's kind of separate and disconnected from the language. My approach was always, "This symbol is TIKARA. It means power. RYOKU." Then I'd write it a bunch. I think it's just the way my memory works. Who knows how much I would have liked it when I was a beginning student? If it works for a lot of people, that's great!

Gizmotech
April 30th, 2015, 08:07
Word. I'm not calling it stupid. I just don't think it suits me. I'm wondering if maybe that's just one phase of a more comprehensive approach.
That's exactly correct. There is a HUGE reason they are teaching you like this.

You remembered it, didn't you?! ;) I think mnemonics are great! They definitely work for me. I actually started a paid sub a couple of days ago 'cause I've got high hopes for it.
This is exactly the point. It stuck. It might have been stupid but it sis stick and you will remember... Until you don't need it anymore.

Haha yeah, but to be fair, I already knew it. I just think it's kind of separate and disconnected from the language. My approach was always, "This symbol is TIKARA. It means power. RYOKU." Then I'd write it a bunch. I think it's just the way my memory works. Who knows how much I would have liked it when I was a beginning student? If it works for a lot of people, that's great!
Okay, so here's the big difference between that strategy and a heisig SRS based approach (which is what anki is).

The goal is to build reading ability without worrying about literacy at the beginning. A huge mistake foreigners male when learning Japanese is to assume that the phonetic representation is sufficient and then you can learn the kanji as parts of words.

The problem is that's not how they are supposed to be learned nor is it how a native of those languages process them. They are built of recognizable components, which are used to differentiate one from another. More importantly, they aren't solidified all at once to the native but rather progressively. They see the design, they see the incorporates style, they get the meaning , and then they incorporate the final product into new words.

Now ask a Japanese person this and theyll tell you I'm nuts. They don't think of its like that... Until you ask them a series of questions to get it out of em (which I've bee. Doing. Ya live research).

Now as for anki itself, let's make it simpler for you when you start. If you're already somewhat familiar with Japanese ignore their nmenoics for the radicals, and just do what comes naturally. The important part about learning them is to make it MUCH easier to differentiate them later. If you've done heisig before, ignore them. If you only had 300 kanji under your belt, forget that you ever knew then and follow the system.

If you don't like their stories, make your own based on their radical names.

Now as for the old, learn everything at once approach. That was me. Four years of uni, a bunch of kanji under my belt, but no ability yo use em. Then I learned about heisig from a friend who went from near nothing to near native in four years (with more than 3k kanji learned). I followed that, and it drastically transformed my learning and speed. Most importantly my retention and ability to manipulate the kanji was WAY higher. In the end I stopped heisig and moved to wanikani (after 1800 kanji) because I'm lazy. Wanikani gave me progressive vocabulary based on kanji I already know without me having to do anything. That addition of relevant vocabulary AFTER solidifying the kanji was a huge boost to my learning speed and using the system reduced my time investment drastically as I didn't need to find em myself.

Now this has been a long ramble, full of typos.. Yay phone! If you have any specific questions I'll do my best but today I am computer less.

Jiggit
April 30th, 2015, 08:34
Writing them about a bunch of times will help you remember it, for sure. Are you gonna write out 2000+ kanji every day, because I promise once you stop doing that much of your kanji knowledge is going to disappear within a few months. The "cram" method only works short term. It's great for taking a test, not so great for actually remembering it after. How much material of a test would you remember within a few months of taking it back in school? The spaced repetition system helps you cement your study over time.

Even if you don't use Heisig / WaniKani, you need to use an SRS system if you want the knowlege to stick. Frankly though, people who say that "Heisig doesn't work for me" when they've only done a hundred kanji or so (about 5% of it) are missing the point. It isn't meant to teach you all the kanji. It's meant to create a base, an understanding of kanji patterns, the radicals that compose them, their most basic meanings and how you might use them. You're meant to blow through it relatively quickly to supplement your other study.

BifCarbet
April 30th, 2015, 09:19
The problem for me isn't breaking down kanji or using radicals to group them, or anything like that. I can't get behind turning everything into English and making stories for radicals. I used WaniKani for about 6 minutes and said, nah, eff this, so I could be missing out big time. I couldn't get past the "These are the fins! They aren't like feet, so they're not people, but picture a fish!" Also I think it very well could have been useful for me in the past, but it's too late. I don't want my comprehension to be contingent on weird stories for symbol construction and reasoning them out in English. I probably sound either pretentious or curmudgeonly, but it seems really misguided to me.

But... if it helps, then rock the hell on. I hope everyone finds the method that works best for them.

taysukidesu
April 30th, 2015, 09:24
You're not supposed to rely on the mnemonic forever. It's just a vehicle for moving an item from short term to long term memory, and a way for you to piece together a piece of writing in the wild. Eventually, you grow familiar enough with the kanji and its related vocabulary to the point you don't think about it. Do you remember learning kana? I'm pretty sure everyone used a mnemonic, visual or otherwise. I certainly did. Now when I read kana and it feels unnatural to assume that it would mean anything other than how it reads. Like, it's just SO obvious か means KA, to the point I subconsciously assume they're written the same way; that's the ultimate goal in using something like Wanikani.

BifCarbet
April 30th, 2015, 09:37
Sounds good! I didn't learn kana that way, but maybe I should have.

Jiggit
April 30th, 2015, 09:46
The problem for me isn't breaking down kanji or using radicals to group them, or anything like that. I can't get behind turning everything into English and making stories for radicals. I used WaniKani for about 6 minutes and said, nah, eff this, so I could be missing out big time. I couldn't get past the "These are the fins! They aren't like feet, so they're not people, but picture a fish!" Also I think it very well could have been useful for me in the past, but it's too late. I don't want my comprehension to be contingent on weird stories for symbol construction and reasoning them out in English. I probably sound either pretentious or curmudgeonly, but it seems really misguided to me.

But... if it helps, then rock the hell on. I hope everyone finds the method that works best for them.

Right, you have missed the point then. The mnemonic is just getting it into your head initially. When I did Heisig (dunno about wanikani) it was amazing because I could feel the connections being made as I progressed. I'd be looking at a complex kanji thinking "OK so this is made up of the kanji for x and y... Oh! I learned the kanji for x and y already, neat". Also when you do Heisig you need to make your own stories anyway.

The whole point is that eventually you'll just look at a kanji and know its meaning and reading instantly. Initially you'll know it by the mnemonic, then you'll just know it by looking at its parts, then the general pattern, then as its English definition and (if you do the second book) by it's most common readings.

Which is why people who've only looked at the start of it have no idea. It doesn't sound pretentious, it sounds ignorant. I've never seen someone who finished Heisig say it wasn't a good method, but I do see a lot of naysayers who've barely touched it. My friend, who got N1 from nothing in under 3 years, swears by it, meanwhile I've met Japanese majors, studying with more traditional methods, who've lived here for 2 years and are at N2 or even N3. In part it depends on the person, and of course no one can make you do it, but there are a lot of reasons why it just makes more sense than the alternatives.

Gizmotech
April 30th, 2015, 09:56
Gonna agree with jiggit on this one.

If the nmeonic doesn't work for ya, ignore em. I do. I just use the presentation structure to facilitate my learning. When something doesn't stick, then I use the nmeonic to get it into my head, but it only exists there for a few repetitions until it is replaced by meaning/pronunciation recall.

Just spending a few minutes with this type of srs (or any srs) will NEVER seem productive because the power is in its long term goals, not short term gains.

Everyone I know who has ever succeed at Japanese has used a solid srs, and the best all used a method similar to Heisig. The depressing ones are the ones who tried to learn it the same way they learned shit in school through rote memorization or mass cramming and they have never been as successful. 4 years later I haven't taken a jlpt, but I regularly school the "I have jlpt n2 or n1" people on knowledge and use ability. Many of em are jealous of my ability to naturally communicate, as it's all in my head in a non declarative way.

Jiggit
April 30th, 2015, 10:04
The depressing ones are the ones who tried to learn it the same way they learned shit in school through rote memorization or mass cramming and they have never been as successful.

If you want a reminder of how effective this method is, go have a chat with a 3rd grade HS kid in English.

Gizmotech
April 30th, 2015, 10:37
If you want a reminder of how effective this method is, go have a chat with a 3rd grade HS kid in English.
That's a special type of fail though [emoji14]

BifCarbet
April 30th, 2015, 12:58
I'm sure that's all true. I'm not missing the point. I just did it differently and learned well. I was only saying I was immediately turned off, not that it's ineffective and that you guys shouldn't use it.

Jiggit
April 30th, 2015, 13:06
OK, fair enough. Sorry, feeling grumpy today.

BifCarbet
April 30th, 2015, 13:09
Hope the day turns around for ya.

johnny
April 30th, 2015, 13:11
If you're a CIR, I'm willing to accept that you did a good job learning Kanji.

BifCarbet
April 30th, 2015, 13:50
If you're a CIR, I'm willing to accept that you did a good job learning Kanji.

You might be surprised by the J-go standards.

x_stei
April 30th, 2015, 14:11
For me, I think SRS systems are great. I've used readthekanji before and it was fun and I liked it.

I think learning something you already know from a different perspective can be weird, hence if you have an established knowledge of hiragana, WaniKani's way might put you off. But if a beginner comes to it for the first time, the approach might very well stick.

I learnt kana differently too, without the mnemonics. I am not a fan of WaniKani's way to teach kana; I don't know how they do with regular kanji.

Gizmotech
April 30th, 2015, 14:42
For me, I think SRS systems are great. I've used readthekanji before and it was fun and I liked it.

I think learning something you already know from a different perspective can be weird, hence if you have an established knowledge of hiragana, WaniKani's way might put you off. But if a beginner comes to it for the first time, the approach might very well stick.

I learnt kana differently too, without the mnemonics. I am not a fan of WaniKani's way to teach kana; I don't know how they do with regular kanji.

I didn't even realize wanikani taught kana.... must be a separate thing. You don't really need nmenoics for kana to be honest. They are relatively simple, and they should be learned through rote memorization... mainly because you should be able to write them without thinking. Kanji on the other hand.... well that's the difference between writing the alphabet and spelling a word, backwards :P.

x_stei
April 30th, 2015, 14:56
Wait. Nevermind. I think I might've mistakened the radicals as kana. -_-"

It's late, I need sleep. Forgive me...!

Ebi
April 30th, 2015, 17:31
For me, I think SRS systems are great. I've used readthekanji before and it was fun and I liked it.

I think learning something you already know from a different perspective can be weird, hence if you have an established knowledge of hiragana, WaniKani's way might put you off. But if a beginner comes to it for the first time, the approach might very well stick.

I learnt kana differently too, without the mnemonics. I am not a fan of WaniKani's way to teach kana; I don't know how they do with regular kanji.
This was my issue with WaniKani too. I like SRS systems and they definitely work for me, but repeating things I already know with new mnemonics put me off so I never really pursued it further. I used Memrise for a while and made my own mnemonics for unfamiliar vocab and that worked better. I think it would have been good if used a system like WaniKani from the start, but at this point I think I'd rather stick with what I've already got.

Gizmotech
April 30th, 2015, 18:22
This was my issue with WaniKani too. I like SRS systems and they definitely work for me, but repeating things I already know with new mnemonics put me off so I never really pursued it further. I used Memrise for a while and made my own mnemonics for unfamiliar vocab and that worked better. I think it would have been good if used a system like WaniKani from the start, but at this point I think I'd rather stick with what I've already got.

I thought that too, but in the end I found it much easier just to ignore the wanikani radical explanations for shit I already knew (which was most of it) and just use it for the drip feed of content. I also use it with an override so I make absolutely NO effort to remember their radical names and just build my own head explanations for the kanji.

taysukidesu
April 30th, 2015, 21:33
I'm not saying all kana needs mnemonics, but for the more difficult ones to remember, using a visual mnemonic really helped everyone in my classes. Obviously kana need more drilling than kanji would theoretically use.

Ebi
April 30th, 2015, 21:36
I thought that too, but in the end I found it much easier just to ignore the wanikani radical explanations for shit I already knew (which was most of it) and just use it for the drip feed of content. I also use it with an override so I make absolutely NO effort to remember their radical names and just build my own head explanations for the kanji.
Well I might give it another go. Can you choose what level you want to start at? Because I'd rather not go back to square one since I've studied up to N1 kanji. (Not saying I'm amazingly proficient, but I do recognize the meanings of most of them still even if the readings escape me.)

Ananasboat
April 30th, 2015, 22:08
From what I've heard you have to pay after a certain level. I've never used wanikani but I know people who have, still I'm not sure.

Gizmotech
April 30th, 2015, 22:26
Unfortunately there is no way to skip levels. That being said, if you use he override script to ensure you always advance your kanji you can get a lot of benefit out of the vocab while constantly pushing the 9 day level up window.

I had simile feelings when I started but using that allowed me to power through the basics and get to a point where I only really knew about 50% per level.

weepinbell
May 1st, 2015, 22:41
This was my issue with WaniKani too. I like SRS systems and they definitely work for me, but repeating things I already know with new mnemonics put me off so I never really pursued it further. I used Memrise for a while and made my own mnemonics for unfamiliar vocab and that worked better. I think it would have been good if used a system like WaniKani from the start, but at this point I think I'd rather stick with what I've already got.

I just started using memrise and I love it for vocab. It's actually also really helping me with kanji recognition, too. I think what's taking some getting used to with SRS stuff is that like everyone's saying, it's not instantaneous, it kind of plants a seed in the back of your mind at first, rather than drilling it like textbook memorization tends to do (and then later forgetting it)... I actually use their mneumonics on memrise for the ones I can't remember, and it's been pretty helpful. Some of them are pretty ridiculous/borderline vulgar but I mean now I'll never forget certain words... ('komu' = to go into = picture of a pornstar saying 'komu inside'........... nice)

Wanikani is pretty similar to Heisig, right? I have a pdf of Heisig on my laptop that I tried to use briefly in August when I was just starting my Elementary Japanese class and it was way too overwhelming at the time lol. I think I'll give it another go now that I'm a little more familiar with Kanji.