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Gizmotech
June 3rd, 2015, 14:49
So I got a bit... fed up, with some of my teachers today. They keep using the word Jyukugo 熟語(じゅくご)for everything under the sun. I decided to make some VERY clear differentiations that are very important in English, and give them some explains. Several of the teachers went full JTE and did the "whatever, I knows me English good" (god I wish they were that good) others went "ohh no shit... that makes much more sense now." Keep in mind my definitions are meant to be REALLY simple, and Wikipedia also doesn't really make a distinction between saying and idiom where as I do.

English 熟語

Idiom: Literal Meaning does not mean figurative meaning
Kick the bucket. --> To Die
Raining cats and dogs--> Super-heavy (downpour) rain
Can’t keep one’s head above water --> cannot manage a situation

Saying: Figurative meaning can be guessed from literal meaning
As useful as a screen door on a submarine--> useless
It’s not rocket science--> simple
Get to the bottom of --> find the root

Collocation: Things that often go together
To cope with --> does not require with
To deal with --> does not require with
Be impressed by --> passive form of impress
Be amazed at(by) --> irregular passive form of amaze

Phrasal verbs: Verbs that MUST come with their preposition or infinitive. Can be found in question answers.
Supposed to --> Were you supposed to go to work today? I was supposed to.
To type in --> Can you type in the form? Yes, I can type it in.
To fill out --> same as above
to get out--> Can you get out of the box? Sure I can get out.
To let out --> Can you let out the dog? Sure I can let it out.
used to --> Do you play the saxophone? I used to. (note the mandatory past tense AND obligatory to infinitive... doubly fucked)

Virgil
June 3rd, 2015, 15:19
used to --> Do you play the saxaphone? I used to. (note the mandatory past tense AND obligatory to infinitive... doubly fucked)

saxaphone

saxaphone

saxaphone

saxaphone

I'm not sure what saxing is, but you shouldn't do it to a phone.
Ok, I'm done being a douche.
Nice write up!

Gizmotech
June 3rd, 2015, 15:33
That was a last minute addition that didn't make it to the teacher printout. Ooops :P

Jiggit
June 3rd, 2015, 17:01
なるほど不思議な言葉ね

Ebi
June 3rd, 2015, 17:08
Nice! Thanks for reminding me of the word "collocation". I completely forgot about that one. I tend to just call them a "set phrase" out of habit since that's what one of my JTEs uses.

Jiggit
June 3rd, 2015, 17:10
Gizmochan, how does this account for cockney rhyming slang?

webstaa
June 4th, 2015, 09:33
Nice! Thanks for reminding me of the word "collocation". I completely forgot about that one. I tend to just call them a "set phrase" out of habit since that's what one of my JTEs uses.

I've tried to explain the difference between idioms, proverbs, and sayings etc in terms of jukugo (to my JTEs) and they don't get it. Funnily enough, I had success with an activity based around different and similar Japanese and English idioms and proverbs which the students really liked (a higher level class.) But the JTEs get 'set phrases.'

One thing I've never been able to explain to students well enough is poems and rhyme. Although the students liked limericks.

Gizmotech
June 4th, 2015, 09:42
Poetry and Rhyme is something that even native speakers have trouble with. It's not a "natural" part of language so much as a "creative" part of language.

You don't need them to use English, but they can certainly help with building intonation patterns.

Ebi
June 4th, 2015, 14:53
One thing I've never been able to explain to students well enough is poems and rhyme. Although the students liked limericks.


Poetry and Rhyme is something that even native speakers have trouble with. It's not a "natural" part of language so much as a "creative" part of language.

You don't need them to use English, but they can certainly help with building intonation patterns.
Agreed, poetry is tough.

It annoys me that the only poetry activity in the New Horizon textbook gives "rules for English poems" that apply to only a very specific kind of poem. In this case, students are asked to write didactic cinquain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinquain) poems. (Which I had to look that up, since I've never heard of them.)

I've taught acrostic poems successfully since the rules are also pretty easy to follow. I've done English-style haiku, too. And I've done an activity with the poem "Smart" by Shel Silverstein.

But yeah, I don't think rhyming would be easy to pull off with their limited vocabulary.