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Frap
October 5th, 2015, 10:19
Hello.

I couldn't find a similar thread (I didn't look very hard, though, sorry!) where we (I) can ask dumb questions about Japanese language/study.

I JUST started the CLAIR language course for beginners and I'm trying to understand each "example" properly before I move on.

Is my understanding of the following statement correct:


"On top of the table, there is a book."

tsukue no ue ni hon ga arimasu

つくえの 上に 本が あります

table possession particle on top location particle book subject particle there is (existence of inanimate object)

Gizmotech
October 5th, 2015, 12:16
That's correct, only for better clarity it's not "on top" but "above/top" as the "ni" is indicating location in a way similar to our preposition.

Also, what's with the funny brackets?

つくえ の うえ に ほん が あります
机の上に本があります
{机[desk]の(Possessive) 上[top/above]に(locative) 本[book] }が(direct subject) あります[existential inanimate verb]

Also, please for the love of god put your modifiers where they belong. "on the table" is modifying "book" (see curlies) so fronting the modifier in English is stupid.

There is {a book on the table}.

Jiggit
October 5th, 2015, 12:43
But who was pen?

Frap
October 5th, 2015, 13:01
That's correct, only for better clarity it's not "on top" but "above/top" as the "ni" is indicating location in a way similar to our preposition

Noted!


Also, what's with the funny brackets?

Oh, I didn't notice those brackets! Huh, I just copied that Japanese line from the CLAIR page!


つくえ の うえ に ほん が あります
机の上に本があります
{机[desk]の(Possessive) 上[top/above]に(locative) 本[book] }が(direct subject) あります[existential inanimate verb]

Also, please for the love of god put your modifiers where they belong. "on the table" is modifying "book" (see curlies) so fronting the modifier in English is stupid.

There is {a book on the table}.

I just copypasted the English from CLAIR's page, as well! Personally, I would never say "on top of the table, there is a book."

机の上に本があります - Got it! Thanks~

Gizmotech
October 5th, 2015, 13:45
Okay, cheers. For future reference, please let us know when you're copypastaing... that way we know if it's you or the book being silly. You'd be amazed at the... random things I've heard ALTs say when translating Japanese sentences from these books, or the baad habbits they've learned on places like /r/learnJapanese.

Jiggit
October 5th, 2015, 13:47
baad habbits

Naasty thieving habbits, we hates them!

Virgil
October 5th, 2015, 13:53
Naasty thieving habbits, we hates them!

I am precious.

Ebi
October 5th, 2015, 18:53
I can't speak about the beginners book, but I absolutely hated the intermediate ones and stopped taking the tests after the first book. They weren't clear and the problems were ambiguous and often poorly phrased. My JTE tried to help me out with a section and basically told me it was all wrong.

If you're willing to invest in a different textbook, I've heard good things about Genki. Tae Kim's grammar guide (http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/) is also useful for a reference and Jisho.org (http://jisho.org/) is pretty decent as a free dictionary. (Learn a few of the basic hashtags (http://jisho.org/docs) to narrow down your searches or just use the classic version (http://classic.jisho.org/).)

On the positive side, I know some people who liked the JET books because it gave them free, consistent study practice. Also, the fact there's actually kanji and hiragana in the beginners course is a huge improvement. I heard that the books were entirely in romaji. Anyway, good luck!

Virgil
October 6th, 2015, 08:57
I think it has changed a lot this year??

Gizmotech
October 6th, 2015, 09:57
It changed a lot since it went digital.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Ebi
October 6th, 2015, 11:07
Thank goodness!

Frap
October 6th, 2015, 16:51
lol wtf im doing a test on the CLAIR site and it just asked me a question and the answer is nothing theyve previously taught... how am i supposed to know?!

uthinkimlost?
October 6th, 2015, 16:57
"lowest bidder", blablabla

daisychain
October 7th, 2015, 14:35
I don't know about anyone else but I find the layout awful and somewhat difficult to navigate. It really put me off as I was trying to use it!
Another ALT in my area is taking the Intermediate course, and the lessons are EXACTLY the same as the N3 level book he bought recently, even down to the pictures used apparently.. not sure what book he is using though, but he was pretty amused by this.

I have found Tae Kim's online guide much more useful - if you're willing to set your own learning structure and keep to it.

Virgil
October 7th, 2015, 15:00
I don't know about anyone else but I find the layout awful and somewhat difficult to navigate. It really put me off as I was trying to use it!
Another ALT in my area is taking the Intermediate course, and the lessons are EXACTLY the same as the N3 level book he bought recently, even down to the pictures used apparently.. not sure what book he is using though, but he was pretty amused by this.

I have found Tae Kim's online guide much more useful - if you're willing to set your own learning structure and keep to it.

Yeah I swear the beginner's one is the same as 'Japanese for Busy People'

Virgil
October 7th, 2015, 15:28
Actually it's exactly the same as this N5 book I have. I just checked.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/06/df3470efd981e08b1ddcabda3f8fe0f6.jpg

Frap
October 7th, 2015, 15:32
OMG SPOILERS! >: (

Gizmotech
October 7th, 2015, 16:01
What, is it seriously just Japanese for busy people?

You're taking the piss right?

Virgil
October 7th, 2015, 16:03
No, it's an N5 textbook I had. I definitely remembered the stock pictures and generic situations though.

Zolrak 22
October 7th, 2015, 20:37
For a minute there I was hoping for a highlander situation with swords instead of umbrellas.

mothy
October 7th, 2015, 20:55
if you're willing to set your own learning structure and keep to it.

Oh my god. Why don't you just ask me to turn water to wine while you're at it?

daisychain
October 8th, 2015, 08:39
Oh my god. Why don't you just ask me to turn water to wine while you're at it?

Can you? That would be quite the skill to learn. Probably more fruitful in the long run...

Frap
October 8th, 2015, 10:54
Confused, again.

In a grammar point regarding adjectives, they state:


When explaining in detail what kind of person or thing someone or something is, いadjective, なadjective or [noun + "の"] are placed in front of the noun they modify.
When modifying a noun with a なadjective, the adjective is placed before the noun and "な" is added as a suffix to the adjective.
When modifying a noun with another noun, "の" is added to the end of the noun that is to be used as a modifier.


いA  + 名詞(めいし)(meishi)
なAな + 名詞(めいし)(meishi)
Nの  + 名詞(めいし)(meishi)

Then a little later on a "BE CAREFUL" page, it says:


Do not add "の" to the end of an いadjective or なadjective.

Then the example they give is:

きれいの くつ です。 ⇒ ○ きれいな くつ です。
Kirei no kutsu desu.  ⇒ ○ Kireina kutsu desu.

I'm confused because they said:


When modifying a noun with a なadjective, the adjective is placed before the noun and "な" is added as a suffix to the adjective.

But surely きれい is an いadjective, not a なadjective? Am I just being dumb?

mothy
October 8th, 2015, 11:00
Kirei is a な adjective. Just because it ends in い doesn't mean it's an い adjective.

Frap
October 8th, 2015, 11:15
Kirei is a な adjective. Just because it ends in い doesn't mean it's an い adjective.

Well shit! I think I need to take a closer look at な and い adjectives...

Gizmotech
October 8th, 2015, 11:29
Ya. That's a memorisation problem for ya, you'll have to get the base adjectives down.

Once you start getting to more complex adjectives they become clearer, especially when they're mostly kanji based vs hiragana based.

Ebi
October 9th, 2015, 08:05
Well shit! I think I need to take a closer look at な and い adjectives...
Well the good news is that きれい is probably the only super common adjective I can think of that ends with い but isn't an い adjective.

Also, if kirei is written in kanji it becomes obvious that it's a な adj. since there's no "extra" い on the end: 綺麗
Compare this to い adjectives which always have okurigana (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okurigana): 寒い、 高い、可愛い、忙しい

Kanji makes Japanese a lot easier to read once you know enough of them. Then again, often words with really complicated kanji like きれい are written in hiragana or katakana, especially if the target audience is JHS or below.

Virgil
October 9th, 2015, 08:41
Well the good news is that きれい is probably the only super common adjective I can think of that ends with い but isn't an い adjective.

Also, if kirei is written in kanji it becomes obvious that it's a な adj. since there's no "extra" い on the end: 綺麗
Compare this to い adjectives which always have okurigana (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okurigana): 寒い、 高い、可愛い、忙しい

Kanji makes Japanese a lot easier to read once you know enough of them. Then again, often words with really complicated kanji like きれい are written in hiragana or katakana, especially if the target audience is JHS or below.

Yeah, I haven't studied Japanese formally for very long, but I started learning Kanji the day I flew to Japan. Without a doubt, the language just makes more sense if you have some strength with kanji. It makes vocabulary learning way easier, and vica versa. If you learn some vocab in your daily life, it will make some kanji more readily available for memorization.

Frap
October 9th, 2015, 09:17
Just passed the test for Volume 1! Was only 7 questions long? lol

webstaa
October 9th, 2015, 09:37
Just passed the test for Volume 1! Was only 7 questions long? lol

CLAIR's course? I think the tests for the old "advanced course" were only like 20 questions or less. Although they had a bit of a writing section for some of them.

Virgil
October 9th, 2015, 09:38
Just passed the test for Volume 1! Was only 7 questions long? lol


Yeah, I already don't have a lot of faith in this course :\
Between the time I signed up for the damn thing and it actually starting I have learned far more than what it is covering.

It seems to be better than before at least.

daisychain
October 9th, 2015, 09:41
Between the time I signed up for the damn thing and it actually starting I have learned far more than what it is covering.

Saaame. I actually started studying in August when I had very little to do before classes, and I already covered what they were teaching. I didn't want to wait 2 months to see what the course offered..

acpc2203
October 9th, 2015, 10:56
Is there anyway to improve your grammar that isn't dreadfully boring?

Gizmotech
October 9th, 2015, 11:27
Is there anyway to improve your grammar that isn't dreadfully boring?

20 minutes of study and 2 hours of drinking at the bar trying it with Japanese people.

Virgil
October 9th, 2015, 12:12
drinking at the bar trying it with Japanese people.

I've learned so much (and made quite a few good friends) this way.

Frap
October 19th, 2015, 10:44
I ordered a sofa online and I just got this email:


ご注文ありがとうございました。
発送の準備行いまして、追って送り状番号等
再度ご連絡させていただきます。
取り急ぎお礼のご連絡させていただきました。
ありがとうございました。

配送状況につきまして
詳しい配送状況につきましては弊社ではわかりかねます為、
直接配達店へご連絡をお願い致します。
配送会社・伝票番号等につきましては、出荷通知にてご連絡させて頂きます。


※領収書・請求書・納品書について
 弊社では領収書・請求書・納品書の発行は致しません。
 ご入用の際はお手数ですがご連絡ください。

※(注意) 配達について
配達指定日時がある場合、余裕をもって発送しておりますが、
天候・交通状況により遅れる場合がございます。
予めご了承頂きますようお願い致します。
また、日曜祝日の配送につきましては、
指定配送ができかねます。
何卒ご理解くださいます様お願い致します。


?配送が完了後にお荷物伝票番号をお知らせするメールを ?お送りさせていただきます。 ?しばらくお待ちくださいませ。
?==============================
今回ご注文いただいた内容につきまして間違いがないかご確認ください。
[日時]2015/10/17 15:15:15
[支払方法] Amazon決済
[ポイント利用方法]
[配送方法]
[備考] 出荷予定日:2015-10-20 から 2015-10-21 配送予定     :2015-10-21 から 2015-10-25

I used "excite" translator (I feel like it's better than Google) and I got this:


Thank you very much for your order.
Preparations of shipping off are performed, and it's for the invoice number later.
I'll contact you once again.
Of hasty fee, I contacted you.
Thank you very much.

About the delivery situation.
Because it can't be understood in our company about the detailed delivery situation.
Please contact a delivery store directly.
I'll inform you of delivery firms and the sales slip numbers, etc. in shipment notice.


※ About a receipt, a bill and a statement of delivery.
A receipt, a bill and a statement of delivery aren't issued in our company.
When being necessary, it's trouble, but please make a contact.

※ (Attention) about a delivery.
When there are delivery designation date and time, I have a plenty of leeway and ship it off.
I'm sometimes late by the weather and traffic circumstances.
I would like to ask you to accept it beforehand.
About a delivery in a holiday Sunday
A designation delivery can't be done.
I would like to ask you to understand.


? The mail which a delivery will inform of the baggage sales slip number after completion? I'll send. ? Please wait a moment.
?==============================
Please confirm whether it's without mistakes about the contents you ordered this time.
[The date and time] 2015/10/17 15:15:15
[Method of payment] Amazon settlement
[Point procedures]
[Delivery method]
[Note] shipment due date: From 2015-10-20 2015-10-21 It's expected to deliver: From 2015-10-21 2015-10-25.

Am I right in thinking I'm going to get another email regarding what to do to arrange delivery? Do I need to do anything else besides wait for an email?

AyaReiko
October 20th, 2015, 14:56
Looks to me like you don't need to do anything else for now. Besides, based on this, they haven't told you what company they'll use to send the whatever yet.