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Tunafish
January 21st, 2016, 11:25
Hi, a few of my students have incredibly poor handwriting but some of them also like to write their names in cursive so I thought on capitalizing on that and having them practice cursive to improve their legibility. I was going to download some worksheets and have them practice writing various words and sentences but do you have any reccomendations as to go about helping them?

Thanks

uthinkimlost?
January 21st, 2016, 11:33
You'd probably be better served getting them to practice print first. If you think their penmanship is bad now, wait until it looks like a doctor's prescription.

Ini
January 21st, 2016, 11:38
JHS? There should be sections in the 1st grade penmanship workbook on cursive that they should have already finished. tell the little buggers to go back and look at it again.

mothy
January 21st, 2016, 11:50
You'd probably be better served getting them to practice print first. If you think their penmanship is bad now, wait until it looks like a doctor's prescription.

Yeah. Poor handwriting doesn't magically become beautiful when put into cursive. They'd be better off, and anyone who has to read their writing in the future would be better off, if they'd just practice printing.

Isola
January 21st, 2016, 13:25
 I use this site (http://handwritingworksheets.com/flash/cursive/index.htm) to teach the kids how to write their names since you can customize the worksheets.

Ini
January 21st, 2016, 13:35
http://www.seishinsha.co.jp/download/c/download_file/eigo/handwriting.pdf

Torinn88
January 21st, 2016, 13:39
Skip cursive. Have them practice print. In my experience, cursive is out-dated to the point that younger people (like 20 year olds) regardless of where they come from, can barely read cursive anymore.

Ini
January 21st, 2016, 13:42
???? You must know some ghastly 20 year olds

Jiggit
January 21st, 2016, 13:45
You could make it a cultural lesson about how in some countries it's just considered a faster way of writing but in America it's considered the most challenging thing in the world, so they never learn to write like adults.

An easy analogy would be that it's like if there were an entire nation of people who never learned kanji and just wrote in kana forever. Or an entire country who never learned to use cutlery and just ate everything with their hands.

Tunafish
January 21st, 2016, 14:23
Thanks for the advice.

Torinn88
January 21st, 2016, 14:25
You could make it a cultural lesson about how in some countries it's just considered a faster way of writing but in America it's considered the most challenging thing in the world, so they never learn to write like adults.

At least in the US I don't think it's about being challenging, but rather outdated. Almost 100% of assignments over 1 page in length are required to be typed; most students have their own form of short-hand or carry a laptop to class.

Frap
January 21st, 2016, 14:27
Skip cursive. Have them practice print. In my experience, cursive is out-dated to the point that younger people (like 20 year olds) regardless of where they come from, can barely read cursive anymore.

huh? in the UK, once you can form letters, you move to learning cursive in like year 2 (6/7 years old)

Torinn88
January 21st, 2016, 14:30
huh? in the UK, once you can form letters, you move to learning cursive in like year 2 (6/7 years old)

Same in the US but hand-written assignments no longer carry the requirement of using cursive.

Ini
January 21st, 2016, 14:31
it seems cursive is something reserved for the upper echelons of higher education in America.....

Torinn88
January 21st, 2016, 14:32
it seems cursive is something reserved for the upper echelons of higher education in America.....

Nah it's just short-hand is faster for taking notes so unless required to use cursive we gradually move away from using cursive.

Ini
January 21st, 2016, 14:33
Same in the US but hand-written assignments no longer carry the requirement of using cursive.

What does this have to do with 20 year olds being able to barely read cursive? If you learn it as a child why are people magically forgetting how to read when they enter university?

Torinn88
January 21st, 2016, 14:34
What does this have to do with 20 year olds being able to barely read cursive? If you learn it as a child why are people magically forgetting how to read when they enter university?
Because if you spent 10+ years not using a skill, you tend to forget it.

After grade 2 and 3 you're no longer forced to use cursive.

Ini
January 21st, 2016, 14:44
so because you arent forced to do something everyone immediately puts it out their mind?

Torinn88
January 21st, 2016, 14:45
so because you arent forced to do something everyone immediately puts it out their mind?

Basically. If you took a foreign language class and then for a decade didn't speak, read, hear, or us that language would you still remember that language?

Hopefully it's more of a case of it being just out of practice, but quickly regained since cursive is pretty simple.

Ini
January 21st, 2016, 14:48
Probably not, but if I took a foreign language class and then for the rest of my life everyone I ever interacted with from my parents, to my teachers and to the world in general used that language I would probably remember a few things a decade later.

Torinn88
January 21st, 2016, 14:51
Probably not, but if I took a foreign language class and then for the rest of my life everyone I ever interacted with from my parents, to my teachers and to the world in general used that language I would probably remember a few things a decade later.

How often do you seen cursive? I can honestly say that probably 99% of what I see and read is print.

Jiggit
January 21st, 2016, 14:55
the requirement of using cursive.

Like I said, for Americans it's a massive burden, for most people it's just a thoughtless action. It's fine though, I've long accepted that you guys are just a bit simple.

Torinn88
January 21st, 2016, 14:56
Like I said, for Americans it's a massive burden, for most people it's just a thoughtless action. It's fine though, I've long accepted that you guys are just a bit simple.

Yes, personal preference is a massive burden.

Jiggit
January 21st, 2016, 14:57
Do you consider breathing through your mouth a personal preference?

Ini
January 21st, 2016, 14:59
you never receive letters? Do you not write to your mother to tell her of the horrors of life abroad and to ask her to hang a yellow ribbon on the front porch for when your return? What sort of robotic monster are you?

Torinn88
January 21st, 2016, 15:00
Do you consider breathing through your mouth a personal preference?

As someone born with no nose?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a3/Lordvoldemort.jpg

Ini
January 21st, 2016, 15:01
bet old ralph can read cursive.....

Zolrak 22
January 21st, 2016, 15:04
Is forgetting cursive really a thing? (is it common?)

As far as I know, everyone in PR can read/write it.

It wasn't a requirement in high/middle school, but because it's faster it became a habit.

Though I'm in favor of print over cursive practice.

As long as they can read cursive, it should be fine.

Frap
January 21st, 2016, 15:13
people in puerto rico can read and write?

acpc2203
January 21st, 2016, 15:15
people in puerto rico can read and write?
This. Most shocking thing I've read in a while.

Zolrak 22
January 21st, 2016, 15:20
people in puerto rico can read and write?
You'd be amazed at what we could do after the white men came.

I mean, once we moved past the killing to prove they weren't gods and all.

mothy
January 21st, 2016, 15:20
I don't have any trouble reading cursive. I assume I can still write it, though honestly it's probably been 15 years since I've tried, so I guess I'm not positive on that part. But being able to read it is necessary.
I think I'd equate not being able to read or write cursive in America is about the same as not being able to read and write in romaji in Japan. You might be able to get by but you'll end up missing out on a lot.

Torinn88
January 21st, 2016, 15:25
You might be able to get by but you'll end up missing out on a lot.

Miss out on what?

acpc2203
January 21st, 2016, 15:26
America has an awful public school system. Now even the universities are filled to the brim with slack jawed idiots.

Ini
January 21st, 2016, 15:26
Miss out on what?
People thinking you are literate?

Torinn88
January 21st, 2016, 15:29
People thinking you are literate?

Well since 99% of text you read is in print, I don't think it's an issue. I guess people that ignored/forgot cursive won't be able to read all those books published in cursive...oh wait.

mothy
January 21st, 2016, 15:29
Miss out on what?
Being able to read everything you come across for one.

Torinn88
January 21st, 2016, 15:31
Being able to read everything you come across for one.

I can't even remember the last thing I read in cursive that wasn't something that I wrote.

Ini
January 21st, 2016, 15:32
You have never received a perfumed love letter from a busty maiden?

Torinn88
January 21st, 2016, 15:33
You have never received a perfumed love letter from a busty maiden?

Snapchat vag shots are the way of the future.

Jiggit
January 21st, 2016, 15:33
Now even the universities are filled to the brim with slack jawed idiots.

Keeping your mouth closed isn't a requirement. If you spend 10+ years keeping it slack you tend to forget how to shut it.

acpc2203
January 21st, 2016, 15:34
You have never received a perfumed love letter from a busty maiden?
I don't think these wretches even have calling cards.

mothy
January 21st, 2016, 15:40
I can't even remember the last thing I read in cursive that wasn't something that I wrote.

I think you just don't realise how prevalent it is because you can read it. Go to a wedding. 9 times out of 10 cursive will be fucking everywhere.
"What's the name of the groom again?"
"It says right there."
"I know but I can't read."

"Why didn't you show up for our date last night?"
"I couldn't find the place."
"It's right there."
"Oh, I see. I can't read."

Ananasboat
January 22nd, 2016, 17:08
True story. Our state had tests that required us to write a section on the back with cursive. Basically it was our official "we will not cheat and promise that everything in this test book that I wrote is me writing it," statement. The number of people moaning about it was hilarious. I think the last time I wrote a cursive sentence was years ago, but my handwriting is a mix of cursive and print.

Claude Hammer
January 23rd, 2016, 00:31
I work at a historical society. We are now seeing yough researchers working on their doctorate that have trouble reading archives because they are in cursive. Some of it is beautiful and amazing penmanship that should be easy to read.

word
January 23rd, 2016, 10:43
I work at a historical society. We are now seeing yough researchers working on their doctorate that have trouble reading archives because they are in cursive. Some of it is beautiful and amazing penmanship that should be easy to read.

This is another indication that we live in the society I was describing in VIP. It doesn't matter how f*cking stupid you are--in the US, anyone can get a degree, even a doctorate. We've managed to become so inclusive that holding a uni degree no longer means anything of significance. No wonder so many uni grads are constantly b*tching about job openings that require X years of experience. Why shouldn't an employer require experience, when a degree offers precisely zero evidence that an individual is qualified or capable in any manner whatsoever?

Ananasboat
January 23rd, 2016, 11:50
VIP info ban ban ban

word
January 23rd, 2016, 13:27
VIP info ban ban ban

You can talk about things that YOU posted in VIP. Just not the things that other people post.

Zolrak 22
January 23rd, 2016, 17:48
VIP info ban ban ban
Mod bashing, "ban ban ban" . [emoji14]

Claude Hammer
January 24th, 2016, 06:19
No wonder so many uni grads are constantly b*tching about job openings that require X years of experience. Why shouldn't an employer require experience, when a degree offers precisely zero evidence that an individual is qualified or capable in any manner whatsoever?
Word. Unfortunately I see more companies hiring the fresh out of college kids because they are so cheap. I a have a friend who is 52 that has been programming for over 30 years. He's programmed mainframes using FORTRAN for particle colliders to web pages and aps. Despite that he hasn't been able to get a full-time job at a company surviving on projects and free-lance work (sometimes fixing the mess the younger ones created).

It it even work in the library field (my profession). For the administrators it is just numbers on a budget spreadsheet. Experience means squat.

ambrosse
January 26th, 2016, 11:16
True story. Our state had tests that required us to write a section on the back with cursive. Basically it was our official "we will not cheat and promise that everything in this test book that I wrote is me writing it," statement.

This!
In my school district, my graduating class was the last to learn cursive formally. Most of students thereafter could barely sign their name...

Virgil
January 26th, 2016, 15:04
I can read cursive fine, but that doesn't mean I'm going to waste my time learning to use it. I was forced to do an hour of cursive every day in school, and I'm never using it again because I despise it.

Ini
January 26th, 2016, 15:24
despise is a strong word.... jesus, its only joined up letters

Virgil
January 26th, 2016, 15:29
despise is a strong word.... jesus, its only joined up letters

You. Don't. KNOW!

I hate handwriting in general.

mothy
January 26th, 2016, 15:33
despise is a strong word.... jesus, its only joined up letters

And halfu are only joined up races. It's a slippery slope.

Jiggit
January 26th, 2016, 15:39
Getting aside from mockery, do Americans learn some kind of really formal cursive writing system that is strict about how words are meant to be written or something? I always assumed that what you call "cursive" is different from what we call "joined up writing", because I've literally never heard a non American complain about having to use it. It just seems like a no-brainer that writing continuously is faster than taking your pen off the paper for every letter. I actually have to force myself to write print when I'm writing for students here.

Virgil
January 26th, 2016, 15:43
Getting aside from mockery, do Americans learn some kind of really formal cursive writing system that is strict about how words are meant to be written or something? I always assumed that what you call "cursive" is different from what we call "joined up writing", because I've literally never heard a non American complain about having to use it. It just seems like a no-brainer that writing continuously is faster than taking your pen off the paper for every letter. I actually have to force myself to write print when I'm writing for students here.

Maybe? It's dopey penmanship stuff. Like, I can write without taking my pen off the paper, but it's not the same as what I had to practice in school.

mothy
January 26th, 2016, 15:48
It's a formal form. And as can be seen here, some letters, especially capitals, are quite different.
http://townsquaredelaware.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/cursive-image.png

I mean, my handwriting does join up somewhat, but it looks pretty different from this formal style.

Frap
January 26th, 2016, 15:51
what is up with that y?

Ini
January 26th, 2016, 15:54
http://www.seishinsha.co.jp/download/c/download_file/eigo/handwriting.pdf

thats not a million miles off what i was taught as a youth in old blighty. I guess over the years I have dropped some of the more fruity ones as I never liked the lower case f.

Frap
January 26th, 2016, 16:01
thats not a million miles off what i was taught as a youth in old blighty. I guess over the years I have dropped some of the more fruity ones as I never liked the lower case f.

it's still taught like that

source am a primary school teacher

uthinkimlost?
January 26th, 2016, 16:08
Getting aside from mockery, do Americans learn some kind of really formal cursive writing system that is strict about how words are meant to be written or something? I always assumed that what you call "cursive" is different from what we call "joined up writing", because I've literally never heard a non American complain about having to use it. It just seems like a no-brainer that writing continuously is faster than taking your pen off the paper for every letter. I actually have to force myself to write print when I'm writing for students here.

I had one or two teachers call it "script". It used to be very formally taught, as in my grandparents all have identical handwriting because it was all taught the same way. In later generations I think the hippies got ahold of it, and everyone younger than my grandparents has very expressive and personalized handwriting. Once computer and keyboard classes entered schools, less time was spent on kids learning to hand-write anything.

My handwriting is piss-poor no matter what, but it does become much more illegible when I put it in cursive.

mothy
January 26th, 2016, 16:38
Yeah, that's a big reason I stopped. No one, including me, could read my cursive unless I wrote it so slow it defeated the purpose. My print writing only I can read but I write it pretty fast. But it's at least partially joined.

Nephnay
January 26th, 2016, 19:37
I learned how to read cursive pretty early (I mean, it's still the English alphabet, it's not that complicated), so it meant I always knew what my teacher in 3rd grade was writing home to mom and dad about what horrible things I'd done that particular day. I thought I so super smart that I'd scribble it out and they'd be none the wiser.
Plus, cursive was annoying because my name starts with 'S' so I was constantly writing that ampersand knock-off.
But yeah, same thing in Canada, if you just wrote an 'S' without taking your pen off the paper they'd say, 'no that's wrong, you have to do this stupid little pea-pod thing.'

Nephnay
January 26th, 2016, 19:56
I work at a historical society. We are now seeing yough researchers working on their doctorate that have trouble reading archives because they are in cursive. Some of it is beautiful and amazing penmanship that should be easy to read.

Exhibit A: Good riddance, cursive! - The Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2014/05/01/good-riddance-cursive/)

We're always so happy to lower the standards.
LEARN to spell? Pfft, that's archaic! We have spell check now, grandpa.

webstaa
January 27th, 2016, 08:23
I'd rather teach my kids how to type English (at all.) They've got a decent (ish) computer lab and the 3rd years can barely type in Japanese, much less touch type. I guess it goes with the territory - maybe one in five students has a computer in the home.

uthinkimlost?
January 27th, 2016, 08:34
Having had to slog through plenty of ALT SoPs and other uni-level shite, I can safely say that spell check and grammar check are only as useful as the arselicks using them.

uthinkimlost?
January 27th, 2016, 08:35
I'd rather teach my kids how to type English (at all.) They've got a decent (ish) computer lab and the 3rd years can barely type in Japanese, much less touch type. I guess it goes with the territory - maybe one in five students has a computer in the home.

-but just watch 'em on a sumaho. They average 10 bullying messages a minute!

Jiggit
January 27th, 2016, 08:37
My 3rd grade JTE asked me to teach students to type. Then she changed it to "let's have them type their essays this lesson". Then after they couldn't do it first time she immediately gave up on typing. Japanese Education, ladies and gents!

Gizmotech
January 27th, 2016, 10:52
I was one of those kids who learned formal cursive (script) when I was a kid. Spent three or four years getting it beat into me, then the teachers would turn around and request students not use script in homework because they couldn't read it (script really is printing level two if you think about it... ie joined letters).

I mean now I write in all capital letters with an upper case capital and a lower case capital, but that's just to make sure I can always read what I write.

I would never teach a Japanese kid who to write cursive unless they asked, as it's entirely archaic, and fuck being able to read ancient ass love letters between jefferson and his right hand. (seriously, not every student needs to be able to read old forms of our own language. Leave that to historians and nutters)

word
January 27th, 2016, 11:50
Cursive makes a lot moar sense when you're writing with a fountain pen. I understand why it's died out lately. Still, not being able to read it seems pretty LOLFAIL

Ananasboat
January 27th, 2016, 13:20
Not being able to write it, sure I get that.

Not being able to read it? Go back to school.

Nephnay
January 28th, 2016, 01:24
Cursive makes a lot moar sense when you're writing with a fountain pen. I understand why it's died out lately. Still, not being able to read it seems pretty LOLFAIL

Maybe that contributes to my bias, I love fountain pens, but no one buys them so it's either dollar store (junk in a week), or $50 fancy kit.

webstaa
January 28th, 2016, 08:36
In my school we had to use cursive up through middle school, but in High School all assignments longer than one page (and not on a worksheet) were expected to be typed. Luckily, my school of 180 students had 2 full computer labs and another 15 or so computers in the library, so it was easy to go and write your assignments during lunch break or a study hall.

Also, I learned this morning that a computer + typing (actual typing practice classes) are going to be added to next years schedule for the second and third years. Apparently there was a bit of confusion when a class went to type an essay for their Japanese class and found out that 20/30 students didn't know how to use a word processor or type with more than three fingers.

Ini
January 28th, 2016, 08:41
this was the computer we had when I was at school so pretty much everything had to be hand written.

http://remotely-interested.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/bbc-micro.jpg

uthinkimlost?
January 28th, 2016, 08:42
unfff. look at the floppies on her

uthinkimlost?
January 28th, 2016, 08:44
Also, I learned this morning that a computer + typing (actual typing practice classes) are going to be added to next years schedule for the second and third years. Apparently there was a bit of confusion when a class went to type an essay for their Japanese class and found out that 20/30 students didn't know how to use a word processor or type with more than three fingers.

Half of mine -actually- use one finger to type.

Ini
January 28th, 2016, 08:45
bbc micro, bitch.

2MHz beast built by acorn would let you play podd at fucking breakneck speeds.

Virgil
January 28th, 2016, 11:13
this was the computer we had when I was at school so pretty much everything had to be hand written.

http://remotely-interested.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/bbc-micro.jpg


I thought you were older. I imagined you programming with punch cards.

acpc2203
January 28th, 2016, 11:24
The first computer I used at school was an apple II.

Virgil
January 28th, 2016, 12:52
The first computer I used at school was an apple II.

Kids these days with their advanced devices.

Ini
January 28th, 2016, 12:55
why bother teaching typing when siri does it all for you these days?

acpc2203
January 28th, 2016, 15:42
Kids these days with their advanced devices.
I liked the monochrome screen and I could play Pirates! on it during class.

webstaa
January 29th, 2016, 08:14
It was all about those MECC games. Oregon Trail and Number Munchers man... I don't even remember what computers we had in the classrooms - just that they had maybe 8 inch monitors on arms that came out of the back. Computer lab had cutting edge 286 boxes though. I remember when we got cutting edge Gateway with Win 95 and Encarta (with that quiz maze...)

word
February 9th, 2016, 09:04
5409

acpc2203
February 9th, 2016, 09:44
I want a lemon as a pet now