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malus
July 1st, 2008, 01:40
I keep telling people ironically that by the time I'm signing my keitai contact, it will be for a new iphone rather than for something japanese specific. I guess the point of that is: if Apple totally pwns personal electronics at this point (in my opinion: mp3 player laptop, pda/phone) what does Japan have to offer me aside from nintendos? I'm not being snide; I really want to know because I want Japan's fabled reputation of the land of robots and silicon to come true.

FuriousVitamin
July 1st, 2008, 02:10
Japanese phones have some features you might want or find really cool. Personally I like the infrared scanner that lets you exchange phonebook info with someone just by putting two phones next to each other. Also I like having something small like a normal cellphone that fits easily in my pocket, as opposed to something big and iPhone-sized. But a lot of it really comes down to personal preference, I suppose.

Mindflux
July 1st, 2008, 02:18
I've heard nothing but bad things about the iphone.

patjs
July 1st, 2008, 02:29
I don't quite understand why everyone creams themselves over the iphone. The only thing I would use it for would be the browser and you can get that on an ipod.

I want my phone to make calls, send messages, and maybe get me a train schedule and that's about it.

malus
July 1st, 2008, 02:31
from a user interface design standpoint, the iphone rocks the socks off anything I've seen. It's less about the bells and whistles technology and more about the organizational technology that makes it so usable.

Gusuke
July 1st, 2008, 03:22
Personally, I think the Iphone is going to be a niche handset in the Japanese market since it doesn't have features Japanese people want (one-seg comes to mind), and I also find it to be really overrated, if I was going to be in the US, I'd rather own a Blackberry. I also find it that it's dumb that it's lacking infrared, something that I couldn't live without in Japan.

Electronics wise, I'm planning on either getting a 32 inch Sharp Aquos or Sony Bravia LCD TV, and also maybe a Sony Walkman since I don't want to run with my Ipod Classic and it'd be nice to have an mp3 player that can interface with my PS3.

taureanb
July 1st, 2008, 07:54
I've heard nothing but bad things about the iphone.

Care to elaborate? Or is that what passes for a persuasive argument?

I'm no iFanBoy, but the iPhone is a pretty impressive piece of equipment. One key feature everyone neglects to mention is the SDK kit release. To the un-initiated that may not seem like a big deal, but in my opinion it is huge. Essentially that means anyone can develop for the iPhone. Combine that open platform with 3G and Wi-Fi and anything is possible. We're talking games (DS quality), productivity (MS Suite), entertainment (porn maybe?).

It's hard to pass up on that kind of potential. Best of all, since it's a tri-band GSM phone, you can use the same phone in the USA and Japan or anywhere else.

FuriousVitamin
July 1st, 2008, 08:20
I've heard nothing but bad things about the iphone.

Care to elaborate? Or is that what passes for a persuasive argument?

I'm no iFanBoy, but the iPhone is a pretty impressive piece of equipment. One key feature everyone neglects to mention is the SDK kit release. To the un-initiated that may not seem like a big deal, but in my opinion it is huge. Essentially that means anyone can develop for the iPhone. Combine that open platform with 3G and Wi-Fi and anything is possible. We're talking games (DS quality), productivity (MS Suite), entertainment (porn maybe?).

It's hard to pass up on that kind of potential. Best of all, since it's a tri-band GSM phone, you can use the same phone in the USA and Japan or anywhere else.

Ah yes, the iPhone - for when you just can't wait to get home to watch porn.

Pandilex
July 1st, 2008, 08:26
Other phones have SDKs for Java software, I've written stuff for my smartphone too.

I reckon smartphones are way forward not iphone.

Atalante
July 1st, 2008, 08:57
if Apple totally pwns personal electronics at this point (in my opinion: mp3 player laptop, pda/phone) what does Japan have to offer me aside from nintendos?

You're right, you've covered every single piece of electronic equipment. Despite the fact that Japanese makers have never been on top of MP3 players, computers, and PDAs, these are the only products that they produce outside of the nintendo. There's really nothing else you can buy here.

swedeinshiga
July 1st, 2008, 09:09
what does Japan have to offer me aside from nintendos?

herpes?

Delekii
July 1st, 2008, 09:21
That's an extraordinarily big call on Apple "owning the market" in electronics...

iPods are over-priced and replaceable. Ultimately if you spend 30 minutes on the web you can find something that does pretty much the same thing for 1/4 of the price.

Mac laptops are _seriously_ overpriced and replaceable. I just bought an xps 1730 which cost me just on $2100 (Dell had a 30% off day). Running a 32bit OS it effectively has 8700mgt sli video, ~3.2gig of ram, 2.5g dual core, raid achi hard drives (7200 rpm), 17inch, and so fourth - it packs a punch. Going by the mac website, to get something even comparable in specs through mac I would have to pay at least $4100, and even then it is not close to as good (single hard drive, slower graphics card, etc).

iPhone will have replicas on the market as soon as you can say "overpriced".

1440
July 1st, 2008, 10:04
Japanese phones have some features you might want or find really cool. Personally I like the infrared scanner that lets you exchange phonebook info with someone just by putting two phones next to each other.

I just want to point out that you can do that on western phones as well, at least you could before bluetooth became popular.

I personally would never use an i-phone because its super expensive when all I want to do is send emails, phone people and occasionally take photos

karumu
July 1st, 2008, 11:15
That's an extraordinarily big call on Apple "owning the market" in electronics...

iPods are over-priced and replaceable. Ultimately if you spend 30 minutes on the web you can find something that does pretty much the same thing for 1/4 of the price.

Mac laptops are _seriously_ overpriced and replaceable. I just bought an xps 1730 which cost me just on $2100 (Dell had a 30% off day). Running a 32bit OS it effectively has 8700mgt sli video, ~3.2gig of ram, 2.5g dual core, raid achi hard drives (7200 rpm), 17inch, and so fourth - it packs a punch. Going by the mac website, to get something even comparable in specs through mac I would have to pay at least $4100, and even then it is not close to as good (single hard drive, slower graphics card, etc).

iPhone will have replicas on the market as soon as you can say "overpriced".
i agree it is a big call to say apple own the electronics market. however they do own the mp3 player market, there is no denying that. try and find any other product with that much market penetration. also apple is seeing continued high levels of growth in their computers both desktop and laptop which is well above industry trend, so they may not be owning the market but they are sure climbing up the market ladder.


in regards to the ipod, at this stage nothing that has been labelled as an ipod killer has succeeded. yes some have more features but i've tried creatives and irivers and nothing has the same ease of use of the iPod. sure for tech junkies they may not care about ease of use and think only about features but your average joe is going to want something that simply plays their music, does it in a really easy manner and they can easily purchase music online to use on their portable device. not to mention that there are many 3rd party accessories to go with it.

As for laptops, yes for the hardware you may be thinking it is a little pricey, particularly when you are looking at cheapo laptop companies. when you compare to lenovo, sony, hp, etc then apple is not over priced. you are also forgetting the most important reason for getting apple. it is not for the laptop/desktop itself, it is for the operating system. i would never buy anything other than apple because it doesn't run OS X (lets not get into OSx86 because that is buggy) I switched over 3 years ago after starting my windows life on windows 3.1 and working through each release. i'm more productive in everything i do. the easy of use of this operating system makes my life so much easier and the programs are all top quality, you just don't have as much crappy software to sort through when looking for programs online. recommendations and reviews on programs become less relevant. Even my mother at 57 is jsut starting to learn computers and having tried my fathers vista laptop and my apple desktop she says it is much easier on OS X.

finally lets not forget that apples computers are fully capable of running windows. so if you need to boot up into it with dual boot or in virtual environment you can get your windows stuff done.

but yeah of course it all comes down to preference.. you gotta look beyond price here. the experience and ease of use i get from apple is certainly worth the investment in their hardware.

as for the iPhone, again it is all about ease of use. if this product was a flop and not anything to get excited about then there wouldn't be so much media about it. look at the apple tv, there is a product that is pretty much a flop and as a result there isn't much interest in it beyond it's initial release. just because apple releases a product doesn't meant everyone will go crazy over it. their brand is strong but if their product isn't strong people will lose interest very quickly after it gets into the hands of the public. the iphone is a strong product.

it may have replicas, some are already on the market, but if any of those handsets don't capture the same market share as the iphone their software library will be much lower than what will be available for the iphone and they won't have the ease of delivery as the iphone's app store. tech junkies will be fine with that but the average joe just wants these things to work easily.

EDIT: added first paragraph

Ted
July 1st, 2008, 11:34
Touch screens have been around since the 80s. the iphone is nothing special.
and its web browser is awful.

Makes a damm good paperweight though and if you buy enough of them, you can build a house.

Japan remains the world leader in motorbikes and breast pillows.

Mindflux
July 1st, 2008, 12:14
I've heard nothing but bad things about the iphone.

Care to elaborate? Or is that what passes for a persuasive argument?

I'm no iFanBoy, but the iPhone is a pretty impressive piece of equipment. One key feature everyone neglects to mention is the SDK kit release. To the un-initiated that may not seem like a big deal, but in my opinion it is huge. Essentially that means anyone can develop for the iPhone. Combine that open platform with 3G and Wi-Fi and anything is possible. We're talking games (DS quality), productivity (MS Suite), entertainment (porn maybe?).

It's hard to pass up on that kind of potential. Best of all, since it's a tri-band GSM phone, you can use the same phone in the USA and Japan or anywhere else.
Oddly enough, no, which is why I didn't.
However, I'll take that as a request. From what I've heard, it's both less good as a phone than a regular phone and less good as an mp3 player than a regular ipod or music device. Spending twice as much money to get one mediocre product as opposed to two good products is a bad deal in my opinion. And the one person I know who owns one had the screen shatter in under a week - he dropped it 3 feet onto the floor and since the whole face of the phone is a screen it just broke immediately. Now I wouldn't expect to drop my phone constantly but I for one will occasionally drop my phone and I'd like it to be able to survive a 3 foot fall. Hell, I tested out my old phone and it survived a 2 story drop onto gravel 5 times before it broke (and it still worked after that the screen just came off).[/i]

fredbarbarossa
July 1st, 2008, 12:23
if Apple totally pwns personal electronics at this point (in my opinion: mp3 player laptop, pda/phone) what does Japan have to offer me aside from nintendos? I'm not being snide; I really want to know because I want Japan's fabled reputation of the land of robots and silicon to come true.
Well, for starters there ARE robots :D

Japanese digital cameras lead the world. TVs, stereos, Blu-Ray, Nintendos and Playstations, and all kinds of kitchen gadgets that I don't even understand. I have a JET friend whose apartment allows you to run a bath from the comfort of your living room.

But apart from personal electronics, what gets Japan its reputation is the pervasive use of technology in public spaces. Vending machines of all kinds, toilets that do anything, unusual yet efficient transportation systems. Just about every public facility built in Japan in the last 25 years will have some kind of gadget.

Mindflux
July 1st, 2008, 12:31
Don't forget sex robots and tele-smells.

Powers
July 1st, 2008, 12:47
http://www.nttdocomo.co.jp/product/foma/906i/sh906i/topics_01.html

Has anyone else seen the commercials for Docomo's 906i lineup? They have touch as well, (almost identical to iphone) without having to sacrifice on features.

taureanb
July 1st, 2008, 13:15
if Apple totally pwns personal electronics at this point (in my opinion: mp3 player laptop, pda/phone) what does Japan have to offer me aside from nintendos? I'm not being snide; I really want to know because I want Japan's fabled reputation of the land of robots and silicon to come true.
Well, for starters there ARE robots :D

Japanese digital cameras lead the world. TVs, stereos, Blu-Ray, Nintendos and Playstations, and all kinds of kitchen gadgets that I don't even understand. I have a JET friend whose apartment allows you to run a bath from the comfort of your living room.

But apart from personal electronics, what gets Japan its reputation is the pervasive use of technology in public spaces. Vending machines of all kinds, toilets that do anything, unusual yet efficient transportation systems. Just about every public facility built in Japan in the last 25 years will have some kind of gadget.

Japan's reputation as being a center of technological innovation is highly overrated and somewhat unwarranted.

Name one single technology that the Japanese independently developed and encouraged or inspired to be developed. High speed rail is not something the Japanese independently developed, but cooperated with European nations to create (most notably France and Germany).

The Japanese inventor of Blu-Ray technology never had the support of his supervisors who said that he was merely "wasting company resources." He ultimately wound up at an American university because he had more freedom to research.

The Japanese didn't invent cars or even the most efficient means (said:assembly line) to create them. That was an American innovation the Japanese adopted. What's true about the Japanese is that they adapt and adopt technology well. They can efficiently break down what others have created and re-invent it in a way that is creative and innovative.

Vending machines aren't unique to Japan. And being able to control your bath from your living room? I'd rather be able to control it from my bath!

I'm not trying to knock the Japanese. They do quite well for themselves, but I wonder how Japan got the reputation of being tech-savvy.

Ted
July 1st, 2008, 13:33
They invented the pachinko machine and instant noodles.
What more could a nation need in order to feel pride?

Powers
July 1st, 2008, 13:52
As others have pointed out, its not that the Japanese have made a lot of breakthrough innovations, (although they have made many smaller design related ones, and are totally dominant in some fields like robotics and optics) it's that they have aggressively placed that technology into everyday infrastructure. The Japanese dislike of buying stuff used helps too.

fredbarbarossa
July 1st, 2008, 18:28
Name one single technology that the Japanese independently developed and encouraged or inspired to be developed. High speed rail is not something the Japanese independently developed, but cooperated with European nations to create (most notably France and Germany).
At the very least they had high-speed rail 20 years before the Europeans did... :smt004

coffee
July 1st, 2008, 22:16
Touch screens have been around since the 80s. the iphone is nothing special.

steel has been around since the formation of the universe, that insane looking bird's nest olympic stadium is nothing special.

or

it's how you use it.

Zee
July 1st, 2008, 22:41
Touch screens have been around since the 80s. the iphone is nothing special.

steel has been around since the formation of the universe, that insane looking bird's nest olympic stadium is nothing special.

or

it's how you use it.

....

So we are aware that steel is an alloy that does not naturally occur in nature, yes?

Admittedly old in the human scheme of things, but the Universe might take offense.

:|

malus
July 1st, 2008, 23:50
That's an extraordinarily big call on Apple "owning the market" in electronics...

iPods are over-priced and replaceable. Ultimately if you spend 30 minutes on the web you can find something that does pretty much the same thing for 1/4 of the price.

Mac laptops are _seriously_ overpriced and replaceable. I just bought an xps 1730 which cost me just on $2100 (Dell had a 30% off day). Running a 32bit OS it effectively has 8700mgt sli video, ~3.2gig of ram, 2.5g dual core, raid achi hard drives (7200 rpm), 17inch, and so fourth - it packs a punch. Going by the mac website, to get something even comparable in specs through mac I would have to pay at least $4100, and even then it is not close to as good (single hard drive, slower graphics card, etc).

iPhone will have replicas on the market as soon as you can say "overpriced".

If I wanted to haul around a 10lb desktop 2 inches thick that looked like it was designed out of a 13 year-old's history class doodles of what a laptop in a Uwe Boll movie would look like AND I wanted to run windows because, I don't know, I'm stubborn and I do what Dell tells me, I might think anything in the XPS line was something of a deal.

I think the fact that I can run XP Pro, sketchup, itunes, photoshop, autocad, firefox, mail, address book, aaand indesign all at the same time and reorganize all these programs through an ingenious spatial design without my computer even sneezing is a testament to the design of a Macbook Pro. I mean, I can run Windows inside of OS X! OS X pwns Windows.

----
I had totally forgotten about digital cameras, which are the best in the world in Japan.
I don't really care about robotic toilets and remote controlled bathtubs. That seems like a gimmick to me, not to mention the first step in the robot apocalypse (they will take over Japan first, obviously). I think the real irony of this whole technology thing is that a lot of equivalent tech is cheaper in the US than Japan if it's manufactured there.

[/i]

matt360
July 2nd, 2008, 00:55
I've heard nothing but bad things about the iphone.

Care to elaborate? Or is that what passes for a persuasive argument?

I'm no iFanBoy, but the iPhone is a pretty impressive piece of equipment. One key feature everyone neglects to mention is the SDK kit release. To the un-initiated that may not seem like a big deal, but in my opinion it is huge. Essentially that means anyone can develop for the iPhone. Combine that open platform with 3G and Wi-Fi and anything is possible. We're talking games (DS quality), productivity (MS Suite), entertainment (porn maybe?).

It's hard to pass up on that kind of potential. Best of all, since it's a tri-band GSM phone, you can use the same phone in the USA and Japan or anywhere else.
Oddly enough, no, which is why I didn't.
However, I'll take that as a request. From what I've heard, it's both less good as a phone than a regular phone and less good as an mp3 player than a regular ipod or music device. Spending twice as much money to get one mediocre product as opposed to two good products is a bad deal in my opinion. And the one person I know who owns one had the screen shatter in under a week - he dropped it 3 feet onto the floor and since the whole face of the phone is a screen it just broke immediately. Now I wouldn't expect to drop my phone constantly but I for one will occasionally drop my phone and I'd like it to be able to survive a 3 foot fall. Hell, I tested out my old phone and it survived a 2 story drop onto gravel 5 times before it broke (and it still worked after that the screen just came off).[/i]

It should survive a few falls according to this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=czCCavcnNd8

coffee
July 2nd, 2008, 00:55
Touch screens have been around since the 80s. the iphone is nothing special.

steel has been around since the formation of the universe, that insane looking bird's nest olympic stadium is nothing special.

or

it's how you use it.

....

So we are aware that steel is an alloy that does not naturally occur in nature, yes?

Admittedly old in the human scheme of things, but the Universe might take offense.

:|

...

okay!

uhhh i guess i was thinking of iron. i'd pretend that i was just using an exaggeration as a figure of speech but whatever, you got me. i don't even know if that stadium is made out of steel, either.

man...

it's still been around a whole lot longer than touch screens!

malus
July 2nd, 2008, 01:01
I've heard nothing but bad things about the iphone.

Care to elaborate? Or is that what passes for a persuasive argument?

I'm no iFanBoy, but the iPhone is a pretty impressive piece of equipment. One key feature everyone neglects to mention is the SDK kit release. To the un-initiated that may not seem like a big deal, but in my opinion it is huge. Essentially that means anyone can develop for the iPhone. Combine that open platform with 3G and Wi-Fi and anything is possible. We're talking games (DS quality), productivity (MS Suite), entertainment (porn maybe?).

It's hard to pass up on that kind of potential. Best of all, since it's a tri-band GSM phone, you can use the same phone in the USA and Japan or anywhere else.
Oddly enough, no, which is why I didn't.
However, I'll take that as a request. From what I've heard, it's both less good as a phone than a regular phone and less good as an mp3 player than a regular ipod or music device. Spending twice as much money to get one mediocre product as opposed to two good products is a bad deal in my opinion. And the one person I know who owns one had the screen shatter in under a week - he dropped it 3 feet onto the floor and since the whole face of the phone is a screen it just broke immediately. Now I wouldn't expect to drop my phone constantly but I for one will occasionally drop my phone and I'd like it to be able to survive a 3 foot fall. Hell, I tested out my old phone and it survived a 2 story drop onto gravel 5 times before it broke (and it still worked after that the screen just came off).[/i]

It should survive a few falls according to this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=czCCavcnNd8

ultimate stress test video from Ars Technica: http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/iphone-review.ars/13

scroll to the bottom of the page.

Zee
July 2nd, 2008, 01:18
...

okay!

uhhh i guess i was thinking of iron. i'd pretend that i was just using an exaggeration as a figure of speech but whatever, you got me. i don't even know if that stadium is made out of steel, either.

man...

it's still been around a whole lot longer than touch screens!

Heh. I think it was a combination of a lack of sleep and still doing prep for a demo lesson probably had me coming across as harsher than I meant. :P

Out of curiosity I decided to look up the stadium. It is steel.

Now one more drawing and off to bed.

Mindflux
July 2nd, 2008, 03:56
I've heard nothing but bad things about the iphone.

Care to elaborate? Or is that what passes for a persuasive argument? ...
...dropped it 3 feet onto the floor and since the whole face of the phone is a screen it just broke immediately. Now I wouldn't expect to drop my phone constantly but I for one will occasionally drop my phone and I'd like it to be able to survive a 3 foot fall. Hell, I tested out my old phone and it survived a 2 story drop onto gravel 5 times before it broke (and it still worked after that the screen just came off).[/i]

It should survive a few falls according to this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=czCCavcnNd8
Every time but one on that video he dropped it on it's side, not the face (which is the vulnerable part). My friend might have just been unlucky and to the iphone's credit, the screen and touch function still worked with the shattered screen taped in place. That video is unconvincing though.

Mindflux
July 2nd, 2008, 04:19
ultimate stress test video from Ars Technica: http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/iphone-review.ars/13

scroll to the bottom of the page.

Yeah, my friends phone had a shatter-pattern on the glass like that except it was about twice as bad and focused on the edge so little shards wanted to fall out and he had to tape it over.

Looks like it easily survives a fall unless it lands on the face. Not shocking but if you're unlucky it will break in a fall. For $600 you'd think they could have better designed it (maybe a rubber lip around the edge of the glass?) Eh, I don't know, but in any case I'd rather just have a regular, free phone, that makes calls and then an ipod for a total of less than half the price of the iphone.