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jonesinjapan
January 14th, 2009, 12:19
I started going to Japanese classes as I told myself to do for my New Years Resolution, and basically jumped into a pretty advanced class. I understood a bit of it which made me feel pretty good about being self taught basically. But I was confused about this huge discussion they were having about Hajimeru and Hajimaru.

Now I am only assuming this so please correct me and laugh at my mistakes but is hajimaru used for things like:

I will start the class.

And Hajimeru

The class begins.

Thankfully the teacher saw my dead fish eyes when the discussion started and I will have my own free private japanese teacher starting next week.

katsudon
January 14th, 2009, 13:33
Haha I read through this and went 'nice story...wait what was the question?'

It's the difference between transitive and intransitive verbs. In Japanese they have more pairs of these words, whereas in English we use the same form for transitive/intransitive verbs much of the time.

Let's look at a different pair of verbs: おちる and おとす (fall and drop, respectively)

ボールがおちた。
The ball fell. (OR The ball dropped.)

ボールをおとした。
I dropped the ball.

In the first case the verb is intransitive. There is no object of the action. In the second sentence, the verb is transitive, and requires an object.

So in your example you'd have

クラスを始める。
I will start the class.

クラスが始まる。
The class starts.

Is that a little clearer? There's a lot of pages on this for Japanese/English so just google transitive/intransitive Japanese and you should be able to find some stuff on it.

AliDimayev
January 14th, 2009, 13:35
Isn:t hajiMAru the intransitive one? Kurasu ga hajimarimasu.

AliDimayev
January 14th, 2009, 13:36
Doa wo shimemasu.
Doa ga shimarimasu.

vdog
January 14th, 2009, 13:37
I do believe Ali is correct. But for many (but definitely not all) other verbal pairs the "~eru" one is the intransitive

katsudon
January 14th, 2009, 13:38
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/ti_list.html
Here's an extensive list of trans/intrans verb pairs

vdog
January 14th, 2009, 13:39
The one that always confuses me is ireru and hairu. I hate how entering a room is instransitive (hairu).

jonesinjapan
January 14th, 2009, 13:42
ahhhh! I see now if only they told me transitive and intransitive I would have been a little better off, but yeah your right ali I had those two switched!

katsudon
January 14th, 2009, 13:52
Are they japanese speakers? They probably didn't know the grammatical terminology.

Transitive verb - 他動詞 たどうし Intransitive verb - 自動詞 じどうし

vdog
January 14th, 2009, 14:27
Are they japanese speakers? They probably didn't know the grammatical terminology.

Transitive verb - 他動詞 たどうし Intransitive verb - 自動詞 じどうし

Ahh!:o You are bringing back horrible memories of summer Japanese! ;)

jonesinjapan
January 14th, 2009, 14:37
Well initially the class was meant for Chinese speakers learning Japanese (Im so deep in the Inaka I have to take what I can get) so I was planning on some language difficulties but fortunatly enough the Head Japanese teacher knows a bit of english to help me in the class, but she told me she has a friend that will be willing to help me in that class for now on that knows a good amount of english.

Thanks for the translation though, now I kind wish I had Japanese classes back in College...

Mr. Plainview
January 14th, 2009, 22:40
The one that always confuses me is ireru and hairu. I hate how entering a room is instransitive (hairu).

for that one, just think hairu as enter and ireru as put. i never confuse them because i wouldn't "put" myself in a room or "enter" a coin into a box.

AliDimayev
January 14th, 2009, 23:15
Thanks for the translation though, now I kind wish I had Japanese classes back in College...

with the weebloes?

jonesinjapan
January 15th, 2009, 08:38
Well I would have done a little more than trying to translate Animes or remembering words from my favorite anime opening song.