enigmaneo

Do the teachers at your school sometimes use San, Chan, and Kun instead of Sensei?

ten_of_spades

Everyone calls me name-sensei except the stupid cow nurse who calls me name-san (in front of the students, at assemblies, etc...).

At enkais or teachers trips though, everyone gets busted down to -san.

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enigmaneo

Oh, me I don't get anything at the end of my name, but a lot of them call each other chan and kun when the students aren't around. I was a bit surprised but curious if that's the norm.

kingmongkut

I hear it sometimes, usually with older teachers to younger.

enigmaneo

Yeah, it's always older to younger or sometimes it's two close younger teachers.

ten_of_spades

If the students aren't around, the younger teachers call each other -kun or -chan sometimes. Actually, it's usually the OL who knows everybody that does that and the special ed teacher.

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kingmongkut

I'd be lying if I said I understood the intricacies of -kun, -chan, and -san; there is an element of "I am above you" they (especialy the first two) can convey, but it can also convey a sense of warmth. how the two balance and when to use each, not sure.

but apparently -chan still has a sense of respect, as my friends and girlfriend ask me why I used -chan whenever I try it. I guess once you're into first name only territory, going back sounds a bit distant?

also people have killed their coworkers/bosses for insisting on using the wrong kind of suffix or for using yobisute. the teachers may appear not to mind (and they may not mind), but sometimes this stuff is super serious business.

ten_of_spades

lol, I remember reading about a guy who stabbed his co-worker to death with an umbrella for yobisute-ing him.

It seems to depend on the context in which it's used. -chan/-kun is considered friendly if you're addressing the other teacher directly (but only with no students around). If you do it at the morning meeting and refer to them as -chan, that's insulting.

-san is always a passive-aggressive 'fuck you'.

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Neb

Teachers call me name-sensei, and I call them name-sensei. Students just call my name. Simple as that.

Ini

I insisted everyone called me "Captain cock and balls"

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I Am Quailman

Where's that tool Wakatta to whine and bitch about being yobisute when you need him?

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Gusuke

It's just a suffix, deal with it.

I have the same teachers calling me Gusuke-sensei Gusuke-chan, or Gusuke-kun but it doesn't bug me whatsoever.

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patjs

Some teachers call me sensei, some don't. In front of the students most teachers attach a sensei. In the staff room a lot of the older teachers will call younger teachers chan or san.

But it's no use getting all bent out of shape if you aren't called sensei, because hey guess what you aren't a teacher!

enigmaneo

No body's getting bent out of shape. I was just curious if they called the other teachers chan and kun.

patjs

Not specifically you, but other threads like this have usually resulted in people getting all offended because they aren't called sensei.

Also honestly I think some Japanese people think because you are foreign they don't have to attach anything, rather than them trying to slight you or show disrespect.

enigmaneo

My question is not about ALT's but the other teachers. I want to know if they call the other teacher kun, and chan.

kingmongkut

to be honest, though, as part of this whole internationalization deal, it might be good to mention it to a teacher you trust if you don't like being singled out as different in that way (referring to yobisute in particular.)

this is just me personally, but there was a layer of "these teachers think that in every circumstance, it's 'correct' to yobisute Westerners, so as an actual Westerner, this is an opportunity to explain."

is it a huge deal? not really. but at the same time, it's nothing more to the teachers than "oh, he doesn't like being referred to in this way, so I'll stop." at least it shouldn't be.

patjs

i agree with you. I've had some elementary teachers ask me directly, and then I tell them the real deal on the name thing.

Jordan

Assuming you don't really care about titles - isn't that an important piece of internationalisation? i.e. to demonstrate the cultural difference that your home country is rather less formal?
If you insist on being addressed properly it may send the wrong message that where ever you are from has similar workplace formality. It's a dilemma 'cause I can see your point that it isn't ok to talk down to foreigners just cause they're foreign.

kingmongkut

Yeah, that's a good point as well. If you really don't care, that's fine, and I agree that it's perfectly valid.

Not sure what the majority of people think, but here's my thought: there seems to be a prevailing notion in Japan that foreigners always want to be treated exactly as they would back home. Like there's not a concept of "context" in the typical Japanese idea of handling foreigners.

You see a foreigner? Well, foreigners speak English, so speak to them in English. You're serving a foreigner food? Well, foreigners use forks, so don't be "rude" and assume they know how to use chopsticks; offer them a fork, even if you wouldn't normally do so. You're addressing a foreigner? Well, foreigners don't use "last name-san," so just use their first name.

In reality, most people, regardless of where they are, probably want to be treated just like anyone else would. If a Japanese person were to go to America and were stiffly called "Yamazaki-san" in every context, always handed chopsticks--even at Italian restaurants--and got spoken to in Asian languages all the time, I'm sure they'd hate it.

I guess what I'm saying is that I feel like saying nothing reinforces that idea of "treat foreigners like foreigners," which to me seems mistaken in lots of contexts.