Denshi Jisho

capn jazz · June 12th, 2009, 07:00

Really?? 400/2000 kanji for basic literacy is pretty bad. I know about 800-1000 and I have a difficult time reading instruction manuals.

feckless · June 12th, 2009, 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happyscrappy

As long as it's fairly straightforward, I don't think I'd need English menus if it's going to save some $. It might help me find options quicker, but I know about 400 kanji, so generally I can get the gist of menus.

Trial and error and YouTube are your friends. Who reads instruction manuals anyway? I know people with really bad kanji recognition who use their dictionaries fine.

I don't even know of one with English menus, since these are all designed for Japanese people learning other languages, but I would definitely like to be proven otherwise.

You can find a good one in Japan for 20,000-30,000 yen... or at least I saw a few good Casio Ex-Word models (with handwriting recognition) for 21,000 at a big box electronics store sale last week.

tenderRondo · June 12th, 2009, 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by feckless

I don't even know of one with English menus, since these are all designed for Japanese people learning other languages, but I would definitely like to be proven otherwise.

Every Canon wordtank I have seen has had an english menu.

Hikari · June 12th, 2009, 09:16

I use a Casio Ex-Word and am nowhere near fluent. Yet I have not had any problems using it despite menus being entirely in Japanese. You can work out most of it from trial and error, and I think subconsciously reading the kanji all the time through the menus/keyboard means you are constantly in learning mode. There is also a 'super-jump' feature so you can jump between dictionaries when looking up words/kanji. That is very useful.

Happyscrappy · June 12th, 2009, 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by capn jazz

Really?? 400/2000 kanji for basic literacy is pretty bad. I know about 800-1000 and I have a difficult time reading instruction manuals.

I didn't list the # as some sort of pathetic boast but as a way of noting this isn't the first time I've had to read something in Japanese.

No, I can't just pick up a newspaper and read it all, but I can get the basic idea of "ok, this is asking if I want to go forward one page" or something in menus.

Back to the waiting til I get to Japan: would it be cheaper than buying a denshi jisho online now?

capn jazz · June 12th, 2009, 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happyscrappy

I didn't list the # as some sort of pathetic boast but as a way of noting this isn't the first time I've had to read something in Japanese.

No, I can't just pick up a newspaper and read it all, but I can get the basic idea of "ok, this is asking if I want to go forward one page" or something in menus.

Back to the waiting til I get to Japan: would it be cheaper than buying a denshi jisho online now?

I wasn't intending to insult you, I'm just saying that I find it hard to believe you can get the gist of a document when you only know 400 kanji because there's so many more you don't know and because there's a thousand different multi-kanji words that have different meanings than the kanji alone. But if you actually can, then good for you.

Avocado · June 12th, 2009, 10:35

To be fair, dictionaries are really simple to operate, don't really take much knowledge of Japanese at all. I'm sure that a beginner could take 10 minutes fiddling with buttons and use it to fit their purposes.

Buy one in Japan.

kingmongkut · June 12th, 2009, 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avocado

To be fair, dictionaries are really simple to operate, don't really take much knowledge of Japanese at all. I'm sure that a beginner could take 10 minutes fiddling with buttons and use it to fit their purposes.

Buy one in Japan.

exactly. many, perhaps most, of us will be using a school computer here in Japan. know what that means? Windows is in Japanese! egads! now granted I am able to navigate partially from memory of the English version, but an intuitive program shouldn't be that hard, especially not if you have ~400 extra hints. that goes for OSes and for electronic dictionaries.

fredbarbarossa · June 12th, 2009, 15:44

So you'll be able to choose from pretty much any model available, which is great, but doesn't help you narrow down your options.

Wait until you get here, and try before you buy. Any big electronic store will let you go in and play with their jishos as much as you like. At least look up a few words just to see how the machine works, whether it lists all the vocab you're likely to want to know and whether the results are presented in a style you find easy to use.

Virus FM · June 13th, 2009, 03:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingmongkut

but an intuitive program shouldn't be that hard, especially not if you have ~400 extra hints. that goes for OSes and for electronic dictionaries.

Well yeah and no, I mean, keep in mind, how often do you come across words like "water", "life", "study", "gold" (the kind of stuff that fills most people's early kanji study) in Windows?

Plus kanji seem harmless when you can attack them at your leisure, but a screen full of kanji can be like staring the devil in the face.

I used Japanese Windows before. It's not so hard when you do routine things, but when you have to muck around in the back of it, it gets scary.

Happyscrappy · June 13th, 2009, 05:38

Thank you kindly, everyone. I'll just wait 2 months to get it there.

kingmongkut · June 14th, 2009, 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viral One

Well yeah and no, I mean, keep in mind, how often do you come across words like "water", "life", "study", "gold" (the kind of stuff that fills most people's early kanji study) in Windows?

Plus kanji seem harmless when you can attack them at your leisure, but a screen full of kanji can be like staring the devil in the face.

I used Japanese Windows before. It's not so hard when you do routine things, but when you have to muck around in the back of it, it gets scary.

I think we also learn things like "back," "forward," "select," etc. that, and a couple times looking up the really commonly used kanji that you don't know should be enough to get a handle on it. ultimately it takes a bit of guesswork and a small time investment, and you'll be okay.

SarahJ27 · June 20th, 2009, 12:55

I just got this and I'm in love with it.

Sharp Brain

Avocado · June 20th, 2009, 13:35

Damn that's nice!!!

How much did it set you back?

SarahJ27 · June 21st, 2009, 01:13

33,000 (after tax). Not really a bad price for all that's on it. I even found out today it has (narrated) stories and there are some videos and everything. Also you can upload lots of different things onto it.

I definitely recommend it for serious learners.

FiercestCalm · June 21st, 2009, 01:34

So I was wondering... I have kanji sono mama on the DS now and it's served me well in the past. But I'm wondering whether you all think that that is enough or whether it would be well-advised to buy another dictionary to supplement/replace it. I'm at an intermediate Japanese level (solid 3 kyu) so navigating menu screens isn't too hard for me. I love the DS's kanji input ability, so I'm thinking a Papyrus might be right for me. Thoughts?

Avocado · June 21st, 2009, 06:37

Definitely get a real dictionary. I know some people who had Kanji Sono Mama and liked it, but wish they had something with easier kana input. It's also a lot more convenient (imo), and I think I would find navigating with the stylus a pain in the ass.

For more official settings it just looks better than a DS, too.

Happyscrappy · June 21st, 2009, 22:26

Must...have...Sharp Brain...

That's really b.a. - I think I may get that one. What's the diff between it and the pw-ac830?

SarahJ27 · June 21st, 2009, 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happyscrappy

Must...have...Sharp Brain...

That's really b.a. - I think I may get that one. What's the diff between it and the pw-ac830?

The GC590 is more aimed towards students whereas the AC830 is aimed at older people. It mostly has the same stuff on it, but the student one has a lot of school subject-related things on it and the AC830 has everyday living-related things (like health-related stuff). I didn't get a chance to look at the other one all that closely. To me both had a lot of benefits. I think the one I got had more kanji-learning related stuff if I remember correctly. Mostly though, I ended up with the GC590 because it had better colors (I got green

). The other one is slightly cheaper though.

I definitely recommend it though! With a micro SD card you can put all sorts more stuff on it (or you can purchase other dictionaries and digital books and such with the usb cable and software that comes with it). The more I play with it the happier I am

Happyscrappy · June 21st, 2009, 23:59

Where do you go to see the downloadable content? I'd like to look online and see what extras I can put on there.

June 20th, 2009, 12:55	#73 (permalink)
SarahJ27 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Kobe Posts: 507	I just got this and I'm in love with it. Sharp Brain __________________ Gov'ment came and took my baby!

June 21st, 2009, 01:13	#75 (permalink)
SarahJ27 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Kobe Posts: 507	33,000 (after tax). Not really a bad price for all that's on it. I even found out today it has (narrated) stories and there are some videos and everything. Also you can upload lots of different things onto it. I definitely recommend it for serious learners. __________________ Gov'ment came and took my baby!

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June 12th, 2009, 07:00	#61 (permalink)
capn jazz Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 523	Really?? 400/2000 kanji for basic literacy is pretty bad. I know about 800-1000 and I have a difficult time reading instruction manuals.

June 12th, 2009, 09:16	#64 (permalink)
Hikari ITIL Spokesperson Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,571	I use a Casio Ex-Word and am nowhere near fluent. Yet I have not had any problems using it despite menus being entirely in Japanese. You can work out most of it from trial and error, and I think subconsciously reading the kanji all the time through the menus/keyboard means you are constantly in learning mode. There is also a 'super-jump' feature so you can jump between dictionaries when looking up words/kanji. That is very useful.

June 12th, 2009, 10:35	#67 (permalink)
Avocado ERRRRRGG Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,717	To be fair, dictionaries are really simple to operate, don't really take much knowledge of Japanese at all. I'm sure that a beginner could take 10 minutes fiddling with buttons and use it to fit their purposes. Buy one in Japan.

June 12th, 2009, 15:44	#69 (permalink)
fredbarbarossa Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Australia -> Kochi Posts: 134	So you'll be able to choose from pretty much any model available, which is great, but doesn't help you narrow down your options. Wait until you get here, and try before you buy. Any big electronic store will let you go in and play with their jishos as much as you like. At least look up a few words just to see how the machine works, whether it lists all the vocab you're likely to want to know and whether the results are presented in a style you find easy to use.

June 13th, 2009, 05:38	#71 (permalink)
Happyscrappy Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 169	Thank you kindly, everyone. I'll just wait 2 months to get it there.

June 20th, 2009, 13:35	#74 (permalink)
Avocado ERRRRRGG Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,717	Damn that's nice!!! How much did it set you back?

June 21st, 2009, 06:37	#77 (permalink)
Avocado ERRRRRGG Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,717	Definitely get a real dictionary. I know some people who had Kanji Sono Mama and liked it, but wish they had something with easier kana input. It's also a lot more convenient (imo), and I think I would find navigating with the stylus a pain in the ass. For more official settings it just looks better than a DS, too.

June 21st, 2009, 22:26	#78 (permalink)
Happyscrappy Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 169	Must...have...Sharp Brain... That's really b.a. - I think I may get that one. What's the diff between it and the pw-ac830?

June 21st, 2009, 23:59	#80 (permalink)
Happyscrappy Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 169	Where do you go to see the downloadable content? I'd like to look online and see what extras I can put on there.