View Poll Results: Do you encourage katakana usage in class?

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  • Yes: I gloss words in katakana (not just as a guide), and do not correct poor pronunciation.

    3 17.65%
  • No: I do not write in katakana (or I use it as a guide only), and correct poor pronunciation.

    14 82.35%
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Thread: Do You Encourage Katakana Use In Class?

  1. #1

    Default Do You Encourage Katakana Use In Class?

    Flaghag says he does. What about you?

    Do you gloss new words in katakana? I'm excluding things like writing katakana to give a rough guide and then refining it: I'm talking about basically targeting "kyatto" and treating "kyatto" responses as correct, rather than saying. "Ah, no, 'cat'" and having them repeat it back correctly.

    Vote yes if you never teach pronunciation and consider any such attempts utterly futile.

    Vote no if you do teach correct pronunciation, and usually correct egregious mistakes (kyatto, naito).

  2. #2
    Али Димаев AliDimayev's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do You Encourage Katakana Use In Class?

    I tell my students, let's pronounce Japanese words American style;
    futon
    honcho
    karaoke
    and so on
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyakuman View Post
    As usual, you all (Aliを除く) have your heads up your asses.

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AliDimayev View Post
    I tell my students, let's pronounce Japanese words American style;
    futon
    honcho
    karaoke
    and so on
    Don't forget sake and karate.

    Every now and then, when I do something like this to show them how important correct pronunciation is, I enjoy asking kids, "Do you like carry-oh-kee?" Blank stares. "Do you like carry-oh-kee? I like carry-oh-kee! Carry-oh-kee is fun!" Blank stares. Then I do it again with the Japanese pronunciation, and they're usually, "EEEEEHHH?" Then I say that's exactly what "WAN HOTTO DOGGU PURIIZU" sounds like to English-speakers.

    Sometimes, writing both the word and the Japanese version works, too. I write both in romaji, just to make the lineup clearer:

    hot dog
    hotto doggu

    And then I point out all those extra sounds. With that one, you can also note that a short "o" is mostly quite similar to an ア and very unlike an オ.
    Last edited by Wakatta; March 8th, 2009 at 10:00.

  4. #4
    Али Димаев AliDimayev's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do You Encourage Katakana Use In Class?

    oh right. that list was no exhaustive
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyakuman View Post
    As usual, you all (Aliを除く) have your heads up your asses.

  5. #5
    Senior Member ampersand's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do You Encourage Katakana Use In Class?

    Egads, no. I chide my students if they write furigana, whether it gets them to a more correct pronunciation or not.
    "I have ... relations... with many of the students." -- Sai1

  6. #6
    Rrrrrroaring into action. Tomahawk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do You Encourage Katakana Use In Class?

    Never write it or use it. I use the example of my name to emphasize to differences.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Do You Encourage Katakana Use In Class?

    What your name is?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyakuman View Post
    As usual, you all (Aliを除く) have your heads up your asses.

  8. #8
    Rrrrrroaring into action. Tomahawk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do You Encourage Katakana Use In Class?

    ...
    Last edited by Tomahawk; April 9th, 2009 at 22:41.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Do You Encourage Katakana Use In Class?

    Hell no. I don't get a lot of control (meaning I have to cringe while my JTE's encourage and use it) but I never praise or encourage katakana use.

    The two private eikaiwa gigs I do I make it a point to tell them that katakana is not English and if you order a "cohee" no one will know what the fuck you are talking about.

    The 5nen elementary kid is pretty amazing at getting his pronunciation right too.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Do You Encourage Katakana Use In Class?

    I've never really seen my JTEs use it...well, okay, once or twice. Like at one point, someone was like, "so for plurals, you add a ズ" and I had to go over and be like, "Actually, it's just a 'z' sound."

    I don't know what kind of dynamics most people have, but I have never gotten flak for interrupting to explain something or co-opt the class. We trade back and forth pretty freely. When a JTE makes a mistake, I do try to just kind of subtly tell them, so as not to embarrass them. (They're not willfully negligent, but they do make mistakes sometimes.)

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Do You Encourage Katakana Use In Class?

    ONe thing that kills me is when some of my students are speaking and they are thinking of the next word to say so they draw out some words, but then they butcher the pronounciation:

    example.

    "He izzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzu'

    I just keep thinking, please you are holding the Z sound so long, just drop it! No need to add that 'u' sound!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyakuman View Post
    As usual, you all (Aliを除く) have your heads up your asses.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Do You Encourage Katakana Use In Class?

    No, and I don't use romaji when I teach Japanese, either. Straight into the kanas and the kids cope just fine - better, I believe, than if they were being asked to pronounce the sounds of one language using the unsuitable syllabary or alphabet of another.
    "Like anyone with a sliver of honesty in them I believe what I find I believe when I wake up each morning."
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  13. #13
    Али Димаев AliDimayev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wicket View Post
    No, and I don't use romaji when I teach Japanese, either. Straight into the kanas and the kids cope just fine - better, I believe, than if they were being asked to pronounce the sounds of one language using the unsuitable syllabary or alphabet of another.

    Well, the roman alphabet is perfectly capable of representing Japanese sounds, you just have to know the rules of the transliteration.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyakuman View Post
    As usual, you all (Aliを除く) have your heads up your asses.

  14. #14
    Resident ewok wicket's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do You Encourage Katakana Use In Class?

    Oh really? Explain to me how the Roman alphabet (as used by a native English speaker) can transliterate ふ then? That sound doesn't exist in English and if it exists in another language that uses the Roman alphabet then that's not especially useful unless the person you're teaching Japanese to also speaks that other language.
    "Like anyone with a sliver of honesty in them I believe what I find I believe when I wake up each morning."
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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Do You Encourage Katakana Use In Class?

    Well, right, but you have to be taught how to pronounce it. So you can write it "FU".
    The problem is there is not enough variation for kana to represent every sound in English.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyakuman View Post
    As usual, you all (Aliを除く) have your heads up your asses.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Do You Encourage Katakana Use In Class?

    By the wya, I agree. Use kana from the getgo.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyakuman View Post
    As usual, you all (Aliを除く) have your heads up your asses.

  17. #17
    Resident ewok wicket's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AliDimayev View Post
    Well, right, but you have to be taught how to pronounce it. So you can write it "FU".
    The problem is there is not enough variation for kana to represent every sound in English.
    Well, that's just the same as saying as long as a kid is taught that "CAT" is pronounced "CAT" it's okay to transliterate it as キャト, which is rubbish.

    I don't think ふ should be written as "fu" or "hu" when we all know it's pronounced as neither.
    "Like anyone with a sliver of honesty in them I believe what I find I believe when I wake up each morning."
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Do You Encourage Katakana Use In Class?

    Well, yes and no. If ト is said to represent T, then ok.But what happens if you want to transliterate an english word that starts with a ’to’ sound.  Like ”toe”?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyakuman View Post
    As usual, you all (Aliを除く) have your heads up your asses.

  19. #19
    Senior Member kamukamuume's Avatar
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    Default

    I guess it depends on the level of the kids. I have some classes where the kids do their best with pronunciation and the JTEs will go with me if I want to make a point about it.

    I have another class (low level 1st year SHS, pretty much the most discouraging class on this island of noodle slurpers; the JTE outright dismisses my input) where the kids are handed everything. Their assignments involve copying things down verbatim from the blackboard, or if they slept through that session, then from a friend's paper.

    If they have to write a speech, then they copy down example sentences I've been asked to write for them. Then I have to go around and pretty much write each person's speech for them because they have no idea what the English means, and there's too much material to cover for me to worry about actually "teaching" anything. So in that situation, when my JTE has made a katakana chart for them to transcribe words they can't pronounce, I just go with it.

    If the students are at a level where they're having English shoved down their throats and aren't given the tools to make sense of it, pronunciation is just another detail that would muddle everything up. It's an important part of learning English (I strongly agree with wakatta's point about "WAN HOTTO DOGGU PURIIZU" making no sense to the average English speaker), but a good deal of classes ALTs take part in are almost completely divorced from English as a communicative language.

    You have to pick your battles.

  20. #20
    Senior Member ampersand's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wicket View Post
    I don't think ふ should be written as "fu" or "hu" when we all know it's pronounced as neither.
    That's a daft as claiming that French shouldn't written in the Latin alphabet because it's pronounced differently than English. After all "impossible" isn't pronounced as "impossible".

    You can accurately represent the pronunciation of Japanese in the Latin alphabet (better than English, even) as long as you are aware that it's not pronounced the same as English (or French or Swedish or . . . ).

    The problem with representing English (and many other languages) in katakana is that you can't distinguish several consonants, that you can't represent consonant clusters, and that you can't represent closed syllables that end in anything except n without enormous amounts of modification.
    "I have ... relations... with many of the students." -- Sai1

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