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Thread: ところに・ところで・ところを

  1. #1
    VIP UPGRAYEDD's Avatar
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    Default ところに・ところで・ところを

    Anyone want to make a good effort in explaining the usage of the different particles here?


    I think I have a grasp on the ところで usage. Something along the lines of 'even if...not happen'.

    に and を

    Lets do this.
    You see, gentlemen, a pimp's love is very different from a square's...
    (郷に入っては郷に従え.)

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    Senior Member Mindflux's Avatar
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    Default Re: ところに・ところで・ところを

    is that some sort of specific phrase or are you talking about just <place>で etc?

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    Али Димаев AliDimayev's Avatar
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    Default Re: ところに・ところで・ところを

    tokoro has many meaning depending on how you using it.
    <a href=http://www.ithinkimlost.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=3134&dateline=1245615339 target=_blank>http://www.ithinkimlost.com/image.ph...ine=1245615339</a>
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyakuman View Post
    As usual, you all (Aliを除く) have your heads up your asses.

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    Default

    ところで to start a sentence also carries the meaning of "By the way..." or "While we're on the subject..."

    A: 明日のコンサートすごく楽しみだね!
    B: あっ、ところで、切符買ったんだよね?
    A: うわぁ、忘れてた!


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    Али Димаев AliDimayev's Avatar
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    Default Re: ところに・ところで・ところを

    Excuse me, we don't often use kanji for kippu. Got it?!
    <a href=http://www.ithinkimlost.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=3134&dateline=1245615339 target=_blank>http://www.ithinkimlost.com/image.ph...ine=1245615339</a>
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyakuman View Post
    As usual, you all (Aliを除く) have your heads up your asses.

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    SPACE MONKEY MAFIA vdog's Avatar
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    Default Re: ところに・ところで・ところを

    ところ
    食べたところだ
    I just ate

    食べるところだ
    I'm just about to eat

    食べるところだった
    I was just about to eat

    ところを
    I think this is the trickiest one, the part before を is being affected by the part after

    出ようとしたところを先生に呼ばれた
    Just when I tried to leave the teacher called me (the time that I was trying to leave was affected by being called by the teacher)

    彼がパソコンを使っているところを見た
    I saw him using the computer

    ところに
    食べているところに友達が入ってきた
    Just as I was eating my friend came in.

    ところで
    食べては行けないところで食べちゃった
    I ended up eating at a place where you aren't allowed to.

    Is there a more grammatical use of ところで? I can't think of anything besides the literal use of ところ to mean "place"

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    VIP UPGRAYEDD's Avatar
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    Default Re: ところに・ところで・ところを

    駅の改札口を出たところで、急に雨に降られた。



    As I was leaving the station gate it suddenly started to rain?
    You see, gentlemen, a pimp's love is very different from a square's...
    (郷に入っては郷に従え.)

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    VIP UPGRAYEDD's Avatar
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    Default Re: ところに・ところで・ところを

    テストの答えがわかったところで、終わりのバザーが鳴った。
    You see, gentlemen, a pimp's love is very different from a square's...
    (郷に入っては郷に従え.)

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    Cool Cutie Fighter! Hyakuman's Avatar
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    Default Re: ところに・ところで・ところを

    You forgot ところが

    It means "but"...

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    Cool Cutie Fighter! Hyakuman's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by UPGRAYEDD View Post
    駅の改札口を出たところで、急に雨に降られた。



    As I was leaving the station gate it suddenly started to rain?
    That usage was explained in one of the earlier threads, but it's more commonly written simply as "~ところ” having a similar meaning to "when".

    For example: 私は、家を出たところ、雨が降りだした。

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    Member Jcubed's Avatar
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    Default Re: ところに・ところで・ところを

    You can also use ところ kind of like "part". For example, I believe there is/was a Pepsi commercial like 「おいしいところがいいね」

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    Senior Member ampersand's Avatar
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    Default Re: ところに・ところで・ところを

    Yeah. ところ literally means place, but it has figurative uses similar to those of part or point in English. If you parse it that way, then the various combinations of ところ+particle are pretty straightforward.
    "I have ... relations... with many of the students." -- Sai1

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    VIP UPGRAYEDD's Avatar
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    Default Re: ところに・ところで・ところを

    Okay

    How would you describe the differences in these sentences?

    駅の改札口を出たところで、急に雨に降られた。

    駅の改札口を出た途端、雨が降ってきた。
    You see, gentlemen, a pimp's love is very different from a square's...
    (郷に入っては郷に従え.)

  14. #14
    Cool Cutie Fighter! Hyakuman's Avatar
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    Default Re: ところに・ところで・ところを

    ところ is refering to a broad time range in which you exited the ticket gates. Could have started pooring as soon as you exited, a few moments after, or even a few minutes after.

    途端 is used for that exact moment when you exited the ticket gates. Basically as soon as you stepped out of the gates, you felt a drop of rain.

    basically the 時間の範囲 is different between ところ and 途端.

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    VIP UPGRAYEDD's Avatar
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    Default Re: ところに・ところで・ところを

    In my dictionary my definition for ところ mentions 丁度, and for た途端 it talks about unexpected events.
    You see, gentlemen, a pimp's love is very different from a square's...
    (郷に入っては郷に従え.)

  16. #16
    VIP UPGRAYEDD's Avatar
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    Default Re: ところに・ところで・ところを

    Would this be a more correct translation?

    Just as I was leaving the station it suddenly started to rain.

    Right when I left the station gates it started raining on me (and I wasn't expecting that).
    You see, gentlemen, a pimp's love is very different from a square's...
    (郷に入っては郷に従え.)

  17. #17
    Cool Cutie Fighter! Hyakuman's Avatar
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    Default Re: ところに・ところで・ところを

    I think the ちょうど comes into play because ところ is almost always refered to in past tense situation. Therefore the time range is generally identifiable.

    However, 途端 shouldn't be limited to unexpected events since it's used in a lot of idioms. Just take a look at some of the example sentences on Space ALC.

    Basically, the translation of the above sentances would likely be:

    "When I exited the ticket gates, I suddenly got rained on."

    "As soon as I stepped out of the gates, it started raining."

  18. #18
    VIP UPGRAYEDD's Avatar
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    Default Re: ところに・ところで・ところを

    I'm really refering to the specific 動詞た途端 formation.

    Dictionary gives this note. 話し手の意外な感じ、びっくりした感じがあるので、後文に話し手の意思がない。
    You see, gentlemen, a pimp's love is very different from a square's...
    (郷に入っては郷に従え.)

  19. #19
    Cool Cutie Fighter! Hyakuman's Avatar
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    Default Re: ところに・ところで・ところを

    Your dictionary must be explaining only one side of the equation... Here's a couple of good examples:

    それを見た途端、一瞬にして過去の記憶がよみがえってきたのです。
    Once she saw that, her past memories came flooding back.

    ほしいものを手に入れた途端、もうあなたはいらなくなってしまうのね。
    As soon as you've gotten what you've want, you won't need it anymore.

    I fail to see any expression of unexpectedness, or surprise in those statements.

  20. #20
    VIP UPGRAYEDD's Avatar
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    Default Re: ところに・ところで・ところを

    That's because they are not in the first person.
    You see, gentlemen, a pimp's love is very different from a square's...
    (郷に入っては郷に従え.)

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