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Thread: Like Heisig?

  1. #141
    VIP UPGRAYEDD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Like Heisig?

    I'm gona give heisig another spin after the JLPT.

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  2. #142

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    Quote Originally Posted by AliDimayev View Post
    Some still are used.


    Nukemarine. Do you think npeople studying japanese should just start trying to read japanese stuff and just look up the stuff that they don't understand as they come across it?
    Step back and think what happens in a traditional setting of Japanese class. Isn't it taught on the idea of progression, that each level is a build up of stuff you don't know added to things you should know?

    Then you notice that books have scenarios based on the idea that should be interesting to the student In Genki's case, that would be a foreign student going to Japan while in Japanese for Busy People it's a business setting.

    Now the above does the hard work for you. Problem is it's prepackaged material bound and explained not to you and your interest and learning speed, but to the wider area of people. It has all the finesse of throwing paint at the wall, covers the middle area fast but at the edges it's very messy and disorganized. It not only can be boring, or silly at times, it can be either too slow or too fast or add things you don't care about. Consider a common complaint about any Japanese text book "It cover's this XXXXX subject that I don't care about, won't cover YYYY till later chapter's and doesn't have ZZZZ." You cannot cover every eventuality with a text book. You can't cover every grammar concept and exceptions. You can't cover every kanji. You can't cover every vocabulary word.

    To answer you question then, yes, a person that has access to tools for looking up material: a VERY GOOD computer based J-J dictionary for foreign learners, good example sentences, good J-E dictionary, good SRS, good tools to make flashcards for the SRS. He can then take material of interest to him for whatever reason and look up stuff as he comes to them.

    To get to the above (learning stuff that really is of interest to you), you do need a baseline. You need a vocabulary, grammar and kanji in your pocket so you're not stopping at every word. Now that can be covered with text book based material. It's not hard to cover 80% of a language (almost any language) with about 1000 to 2000 vocabulary words. Japanese Kanji hits the 80% mark at 500 kanji or so. Then there's basic vocabulary concepts which cover 100 to 200 points. These baselines can be covered fairly quickly. After that, everything learned was something learned because YOU wanted to learn it. It was in something that was of interest to you.

    It's an easy process, but it takes motivation and dedication because it's a shitload of hours. It's still studying. You're finding stuff you don't know and trying to figure out what it is. Hopefully you're using an SRS so you don't forget the stuff you learn. But you then have the cool side effect of fully understanding something you enjoyed.

    OT: Ali, now, against my better judgement I'm giving you a serious reply. I could have just as easily wrote "yes" and build up a useless post count. But it was a good question and I hope I gave a reasonable answer.

  3. #143
    Али Димаев AliDimayev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nukemarine View Post
    Step back and think what happens in a traditional setting of Japanese class. Isn't it taught on the idea of progression, that each level is a build up of stuff you don't know added to things you should know?

    Then you notice that books have scenarios based on the idea that should be interesting to the student In Genki's case, that would be a foreign student going to Japan while in Japanese for Busy People it's a business setting.

    Now the above does the hard work for you. Problem is it's prepackaged material bound and explained not to you and your interest and learning speed, but to the wider area of people. It has all the finesse of throwing paint at the wall, covers the middle area fast but at the edges it's very messy and disorganized. It not only can be boring, or silly at times, it can be either too slow or too fast or add things you don't care about. Consider a common complaint about any Japanese text book "It cover's this XXXXX subject that I don't care about, won't cover YYYY till later chapter's and doesn't have ZZZZ." You cannot cover every eventuality with a text book. You can't cover every grammar concept and exceptions. You can't cover every kanji. You can't cover every vocabulary word.

    To answer you question then, yes, a person that has access to tools for looking up material: a VERY GOOD computer based J-J dictionary for foreign learners, good example sentences, good J-E dictionary, good SRS, good tools to make flashcards for the SRS. He can then take material of interest to him for whatever reason and look up stuff as he comes to them.

    To get to the above (learning stuff that really is of interest to you), you do need a baseline. You need a vocabulary, grammar and kanji in your pocket so you're not stopping at every word. Now that can be covered with text book based material. It's not hard to cover 80% of a language (almost any language) with about 1000 to 2000 vocabulary words. Japanese Kanji hits the 80% mark at 500 kanji or so. Then there's basic vocabulary concepts which cover 100 to 200 points. These baselines can be covered fairly quickly. After that, everything learned was something learned because YOU wanted to learn it. It was in something that was of interest to you.

    It's an easy process, but it takes motivation and dedication because it's a shitload of hours. It's still studying. You're finding stuff you don't know and trying to figure out what it is. Hopefully you're using an SRS so you don't forget the stuff you learn. But you then have the cool side effect of fully understanding something you enjoyed.

    OT: Ali, now, against my better judgement I'm giving you a serious reply. I could have just as easily wrote "yes" and build up a useless post count. But it was a good question and I hope I gave a reasonable answer.
    Leave the back handed comments out of your serious reply, then.
    <a href=http://www.ithinkimlost.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=3134&dateline=1245615339 target=_blank>http://www.ithinkimlost.com/image.ph...ine=1245615339</a>
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyakuman View Post
    As usual, you all (Aliを除く) have your heads up your asses.

  4. #144

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    Next time bold the actual backhanded comment.

  5. #145
    Али Димаев AliDimayev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattyjaddy View Post
    Next time bold the actual backhanded comment.
    ok
    <a href=http://www.ithinkimlost.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=3134&dateline=1245615339 target=_blank>http://www.ithinkimlost.com/image.ph...ine=1245615339</a>
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyakuman View Post
    As usual, you all (Aliを除く) have your heads up your asses.

  6. #146
    Member bizarrojosh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Like Heisig?

    So I almost gave up on the book because about a third of the way through one has to come up with stories and I'm too lazy to do that. However I found this site (it may have been posted here) that lets others post their stories. Basically I just find one that I like, steal it, and its saves me the trouble of having to use my brain.

    Not Logged In | Reviewing the Kanji

    I think you have to register to gain access to the study room, but it takes like one second and it will save you lots of time if you were in the same situation I was in. Just thought I would let others know!

  7. #147
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    Sorry to resurrect this thread on Heisig but I wanted to throw in my 2 cents.

    I arrived in Japan last August with no, zero, knowledge of Japanese before I arrived. I trundled along until December when I realised that I hadn't really made any great progress in Japanese. I was using an ipod touch flash card app, but then I left it for about a week and realised I couldn't remember most of the kanji from the app (It tested you based on the JLPT levels.) So I bought the Heisig book after reading about it on the AJATT website (probably where the Heisig enthusiasts come from.)

    I started it in January at the pace of 20 a day with an SRS system to help with the revision, but I also wrote the kanji's, with both their english meanings and Japanese readings onto flash cards. This was mainly to practice the stroke order but also to practice writing hiragana and katakana by writing the readings.

    I am now on 1650 kanji in the book so I think I can give some feedback on its pros and cons.

    Pro: It does provide a nice, logical and systematic way of learning the kanji where what you learn at the beginning with the 'elements' is built as you learn more kanji.

    Pro: If you like learning by mnemonics or funny little stories then this is a fun way to learn the kanji.

    Pro: Heisig does give some background to the kanji's as you go through and will tell you when he has just invented an 'element' to make things easier to remember.

    Con: Some of the English key words given for kanji are not accurate and I have found out when showing Japanese people a kanji from the book they sometimes tell me it means something a bit different, or that to get that meaning it has to be in a compound.

    Con: The study method recommended is very time-consuming and it is difficult to find the time to study other aspects of Japanese whilst working through the book. Indeed I stuttered after about 1000 and took a week long break from it at 1300 kanji because it was too much to remember before I was ready to start finishing it.

    Con: The book only teaches single kanji, not compounds.

    Overall, however, I recommend it. Heisig is not a magical way to learn kanji, but it is good and enjoyable if you want to be creative at the same time as studying. I've also found that it is a good way into Japanese if you don't know where to start. Once you do this kanji section then you can do everything else. Further to this, as it was when I studied French at university, the more you learn the more you find there is to learn. Using Heisig has made me a lot more interested in Japanese because it opens a door into Japanese; seeing kanji on the bus or in shops and remembering the meaning based on random stories about my godmother. It doesn't teach Japanese on its own, but then no study book does. But it is enjoyable and it is a tangible bit of learning that makes me want to learn more because of what I have learned in this book. I think it will also help learning grammar when the sentences use kanji.

    There you go, not perfect but good for total, not knowing where to start beginners like me, and good I think if you have your eyes on fluency in Japanese. You won't remember all the kanji in the book, but it does give almost all of the important ones and a way to learn the meanings of them for you to look back on. Overall worth it has been worth the money.

  8. #148
    Resident ewok wicket's Avatar
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    Default Re: Like Heisig?

    more importantly, whatever happened to dombay? i really liked him!
    "Like anyone with a sliver of honesty in them I believe what I find I believe when I wake up each morning."
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  9. #149
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    Default Re: Like Heisig?

    Bad AIDs
    RIP Dombay - nevar forget

  10. #150
    OPPORTUNITYISNOWHERE mteacher80's Avatar
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    Default Re: Like Heisig?

    hahahah
    ☆★REAL EYES REALIZE REAL LIES★☆

  11. #151

    Default Re: Like Heisig?

    good one, renminbi!

  12. #152
    Senior Member Tyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Like Heisig?

    For similar style learning to Heisig might I recommend:

    KANJIDAMAGE

    Project LRNJ: Learn Japanese RPG

    I've learned circa 1000 kanji using Slime Forest. Find it easier than actually learning the spoken words.
    Last edited by Tyr; April 20th, 2011 at 20:13.

  13. #153
    Senior Member Kuro2Flo's Avatar
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    I was doing heisig, but to be honest I realized I dont give a damn about the keywords and would rather learn actual words, or at least recognize them in context.

    I was debating between slime forest or skritter, but dont want to pay for both unless it is really beneficial. Suggestions?

    Edit: never mind, going with skritter
    Last edited by Kuro2Flo; April 22nd, 2011 at 15:39.

  14. #154

    Default Re: Like Heisig?

    anyone know where I can ~legally acquire~ a copy of kanji in context? bored as shit at work with my shit at home
    Quote Originally Posted by Ini
    If you are a empty husk of a man with no ambition come on jet, stay forever, drink yourself into a stupor every night, hurl abuse at people on itil like a roided up chimp at the feces olympics and die of thyroid cancer in your early 40s.

  15. #155

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    Quote Originally Posted by Page View Post
    anyone know where I can ~legally acquire~ a copy of kanji in context? bored as shit at work with my shit at home
    Amazon.co.jp: kanji in context

    ?

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