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Thread: Save the imaginary children?

  1. #1
    Smashes through the wa Miss_igirisu's Avatar
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    Default Save the imaginary children?

    Just wondered what people's thoughts on this was

    Swedish Court Protects Imaginary Children | Japan Probe

    I have very mixed feelings on it.. but would like to hear what other people have to say.
    Quote Originally Posted by tenderRondo View Post
    they said your uk blood has extremely high levels of tea and crumpets in it.
    http://osharejunks.blogspot.com/

  2. #2

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    As gross as that stuff is, and as much as it probably does encourage aberrant behaviour, I don't think that the ban performs the task of directly protecting children. Most child porn laws are intended to help keep underage people from being molested; molestation has not occurred in these comics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiggit View Post
    But what if we reverse the polarity of the quantum string theory? According to uncertainty principle there are infinite worlds out there, so it stands to reason schrodinger's cat is alive in one of them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Apollo87;
    U da real mvp.

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    Senior Member bigredgoofball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save the imaginary children?

    Agreed. It's a silly and somewhat scary precedent. What's next? If I drew a picture of someone getting shot, would I be arrested for conspiracy to murder? If I drew a picture of a building burning, is it attempted arson?

    Is what we imagine a crime? Is what we write and draw a crime? Do we actually have the right or freedom as world citizens to read what we want, to look at any work of art or creative expression that we find? Or is only "safe and approved" art worth having in the world? And just who is to judge?

    I'm with uthink on this one. Spend your days kicking child molesters right square in their balls while wearing a Chris Hansen t-shirt, and I'll cheer you on and bring snacks. But when you start criminalizing artistic expression, in which no actual living being is hurt or damaged or exposed in any way, it's just a back door into government censorship.
    "Apparently, this is the price I pay for years of screwing with Super-Science."
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigredgoofball View Post
    I'm with uthink on this one.
    Gah. Igirisu, can I change my vote?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiggit View Post
    But what if we reverse the polarity of the quantum string theory? According to uncertainty principle there are infinite worlds out there, so it stands to reason schrodinger's cat is alive in one of them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Apollo87;
    U da real mvp.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Jordan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save the imaginary children?

    You have to recognise the ability of entertainment and media to make behaviours appear more normal, in the same sense that children seeing drinking and smoking on TV makes that seem normal. This decision may be based on a similar concern that allowing depictions of children having sex will gradually normalise the behaviour.

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    Senior Member bigredgoofball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uthinkimlost? View Post
    Gah. Igirisu, can I change my vote?
    Just what did I do to you? LOL...
    "Apparently, this is the price I pay for years of screwing with Super-Science."
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    Senior Member bigredgoofball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan View Post
    You have to recognise the ability of entertainment and media to make behaviours appear more normal, in the same sense that children seeing drinking and smoking on TV makes that seem normal. This decision may be based on a similar concern that allowing depictions of children having sex will gradually normalise the behaviour.
    An on-point and coherent argument, to be sure.

    I would argue that in the case of impressionable children, it is incumbent upon family and parents to actually pay attention to what their children read and watch. Parents and/or family are supposed to watch out for and guide their children, to give them the tools to stand up to peer pressure, and do what's best for them in the long term. That includes monitoring and guiding their attitudes toward sex and acceptability of sexual norms in the time and place in which they live.

    In the case of adults, however, your point is more difficult to argue against. One would like to think that grown adults can distinguish between what is harmful or not in reality, as opposed to fantasy... but having had relatives in law enforcement for my whole life, I know quite well that this is not always the case. There's not really an easy answer for this one... but I always tend to side with holding the individual responsible for their own actions, and leaving wider rights intact. It's a tougher call, and you make a very salient point.
    "Apparently, this is the price I pay for years of screwing with Super-Science."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan View Post
    You have to recognise the ability of entertainment and media to make behaviours appear more normal, in the same sense that children seeing drinking and smoking on TV makes that seem normal. This decision may be based on a similar concern that allowing depictions of children having sex will gradually normalise the behaviour.
    True. But can anyone be penalized for something they haven't done? And would the limitations encompass things like a Blue Lagoon graphic novel? If reading something leads to a behaviour, then where does the censorship stop? They just released an edited version of Huck Finn, where all the profanity and racial epithets are removed.

    I'm definitely not supporting the content, I'm just unsure of the ethics of censoring it.

    It's a slippery slope.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiggit View Post
    But what if we reverse the polarity of the quantum string theory? According to uncertainty principle there are infinite worlds out there, so it stands to reason schrodinger's cat is alive in one of them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Apollo87;
    U da real mvp.

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    Senior Member kalliea's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save the imaginary children?

    The US has had this law on the book for the last 3 years. It was also started because someone was looking at Japanese manga/porn. Stupid Japanese.

    But doesn't Australia have this law because of some Simpsons porn? I heard that someone was convicted in Parramatta for downloading porn with Lisa and Bart in it.

    This is silly.
    Numbers and colors are my bread and butter

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    ITIL Spokesperson tenderRondo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save the imaginary children?

    who the fuck could watch simpsons porn? at least my porn is based on the world of the gummi bears
    guys, im not playing anymore

  11. #11
    Last edited by uthinkimlost?; February 2nd, 2011 at 18:02.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiggit View Post
    But what if we reverse the polarity of the quantum string theory? According to uncertainty principle there are infinite worlds out there, so it stands to reason schrodinger's cat is alive in one of them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Apollo87;
    U da real mvp.

  12. #12
    Senior Member bigredgoofball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save the imaginary children?

    Secret ingredient in Viagra? Gummi Berry Juice. True story.
    "Apparently, this is the price I pay for years of screwing with Super-Science."
    -Dr. Venture

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    Smashes through the wa Miss_igirisu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uthinkimlost? View Post
    Gah. Igirisu, can I change my vote?
    It's cool, I didn't put a "chicken pot pie" option so the votes are free!
    Quote Originally Posted by tenderRondo View Post
    they said your uk blood has extremely high levels of tea and crumpets in it.
    http://osharejunks.blogspot.com/

  14. #14
    Smashes through the wa Miss_igirisu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan View Post
    You have to recognise the ability of entertainment and media to make behaviours appear more normal, in the same sense that children seeing drinking and smoking on TV makes that seem normal. This decision may be based on a similar concern that allowing depictions of children having sex will gradually normalise the behaviour.
    This is closest to how I feel I think.. BUT this is a very Western point of view. Like when some American teenager goes and shoots everyone in his school, the first thing they look for is manga in his room. When they find it, they're like "IT'S THE MANGA!!" ignoring the fact that the kid was bullied all his life.

    There is the thing of being shamed into not reporting.. but Japan, a country where sexy pictures of children (both real - bikini books and the like, and drawn) are ok, has a lot less violence against real children than England, where it is not ok to have those things. Deep down, I think the manga should be banned (yes, I know it's a bad thing... how violence seems to be ok and such) but I think that by having an imaginary outlet, maybe it stops people from acting out in real life.

    Just out of interest, are there any manga that we know of where children are like cut up and murdered? Something really gory?
    Quote Originally Posted by tenderRondo View Post
    they said your uk blood has extremely high levels of tea and crumpets in it.
    http://osharejunks.blogspot.com/

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    Senior Member kalliea's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save the imaginary children?

    Yep. It's called goru (I think.) It is extreme rape/murder/pain stuff. Women/children with body parts being cut off and shoved into other parts. Crazy, hard to look at stuff.

    EDIT - Checked. It is actually called guro. My bad.


    But about what you said on the Japan vs England crimes against children. I'm really on the fence about this. I this there is a ton of crimes again children in Japan that doesn't get reported; more than most other countries. This is a society that looks away from people being molested on trains and thinks locking kids in closest is the kindest form of discipline.

    Yet at the same time Japanese society has peopel who fall in love with pillows. In the US there is always escalation. People with anger issues bully others, than they kill animals, than we have serial killers. It is the same with sex stuff. There doesn't seem to be the same sort of escalation in Japan. People here seem to get really into one thing and stick with it. So the guys who love the pillows want to marry the pillow, not find a small child who looks like that character on the pillow and rape her. So there could be a good argument that having this fantasy outlet is actually safer for children.
    Last edited by kalliea; February 2nd, 2011 at 07:35.
    Numbers and colors are my bread and butter

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    ITIL Spokesperson tenderRondo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save the imaginary children?



    mmmmmmm
    guys, im not playing anymore

  17. #17
    Senior Member kalliea's Avatar
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    Numbers and colors are my bread and butter

  18. #18
    Smashes through the wa Miss_igirisu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalliea View Post
    I this there is a ton of crimes again children in Japan that doesn't get reported; more than most other countries.

    How do you know this? Is there any proof?
    Quote Originally Posted by tenderRondo View Post
    they said your uk blood has extremely high levels of tea and crumpets in it.
    http://osharejunks.blogspot.com/

  19. #19
    Senior Member kalliea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss_igirisu View Post
    How do you know this? Is there any proof?
    This is some stats on extreme abuse, that led to the death of a child.
    A study by the Health, Labor and Welfare Ministry of 202 child-abuse deaths between 2000 and 2004 revealed that authorities had at least some foreknowledge of victims being at risk in 164, or 81 percent, of the cases.
    In about a third of the cases, authorities suspected abuse but failed to contact child-guidance centers.
    In a fifth of the cases, authorities deemed that no intervention was necessary.
    "Child abuse is one of the fastest-growing and most serious problems facing mental health practitioners in contemporary Japan," said psychologist Junichi Shoji, a leading expert on the problem. And the government is moving way too slow, he said. "We sense very little progress in policy."
    Child-guidance centers, the public agencies charged with overseeing the welfare of children, received 34,472 reports of abuse in fiscal 2005, the latest year for which data were available. That was 3 percent more than the previous year, and 30 times the reports received in 1990, when the then Health and Welfare Ministry began conducting nationwide surveys of child abuse cases.
    If 30% of the time police are called for extreme abuse they don't even file a report, it isn't a stretch to assume a lot of the time they aren't called at all...

    Parents have traditionally had enormous authority when it comes to raising children, with the government reluctant to intervene, but that's now changing. The Government wants to crack down on so-called "parental rights" and is planning to increase the number of situations in which the state can take children from their parents.
    Numbers and colors are my bread and butter

  20. #20
    Smashes through the wa Miss_igirisu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save the imaginary children?

    Thanks for the quotes. It's interesting.

    And come on guys, this isn't anything goes. I posted it in here for a reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by tenderRondo View Post
    they said your uk blood has extremely high levels of tea and crumpets in it.
    http://osharejunks.blogspot.com/

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