Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 105

Thread: Save the imaginary children?

  1. #21
    Senior Member bigredgoofball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    In the big, boring middle of my long book of life...
    Posts
    1,157

    Default Re: Save the imaginary children?

    I think the question is changing here, from one of "Do you think it's right to make fictional accounts and characters illegal" to "Do you think fictional accounts and images inspire the behaviour depicted, or an increase in anti-social behaviour towards children?" The FBI may have statistics on the 2nd question, I don't know. But I think making the assumption that "having manga = a person becoming a threat" is a fallacy.

    Possessing 500 books about being a ninja did not make my old college room mate a ninja. Having all of Agatha Christie's works doesn't make me a detective. Nor do I show up at crime scenes with a magnifying glass and an attitude, just because I have the complete Sherlock Holmes collection. I doubt that Uthink has tried to build a real working Tardis, or that Daddyatemyfries really thinks she can go into the spirit realm after Ichigo, or that tenderRondo really has touching fantasies about gummi bears.

    So the remaining question really becomes, what is it about this particular genre of art/fiction that made the Swedish government take this step?
    "Apparently, this is the price I pay for years of screwing with Super-Science."
    -Dr. Venture

  2. #22
    Feckless Manchild Otaku word's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    日本
    Posts
    18,421

    Default Re: Save the imaginary children?

    I have no problem with this sort of art. At all. I'm opposed to censorship in nearly all forms. Period.

    I think that Kall is overblowing a problem that involves an incredibly small minority of children in Japanese society. I don't really blame her, though, because I think modern media has done a fantastic job of scaring the shit out of parents and concerned people all over the world.

    I think that you, Miss I, are correct in your belief that Japan is, for the large part, a much, much safer place for children than England or the US.

    I strongly disagree with Jordan's argument. It sounds nice on the surface, but I don't believe it is supported by empirical evidence.
    Quote Originally Posted by 00Bear00 View Post
    When I read your post I suddenly feel like I am so far away from being crazy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ananasboat View Post
    It's festivals days like these on which I really try really hard to make up for not partying in college.
    yeah, because who needs free flowing drugs and alcohol fueling adventorous sex with taut, lithe young bodies when you could wander around a dying town in the freezing cold with a can of asahi super dry in your hand while some toothless old farmer shouts at you.

  3. #23
    ITIL Spokesperson tenderRondo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Sorry Pablo
    Posts
    12,032

    Default

    OOPS!
    guys, im not playing anymore

  4. #24
    Senior Moment Antonath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Living on the edge of sanity
    Posts
    6,582

    Default Re: Save the imaginary children?

    This is definitely slippery slope stuff. I hate sound like a nutcase here, but there is a war on imagination taking place around the world. In cases like this, it's coinciding with the war on sex that the "western" world is waging.

    While I get the argument about escalation (drawn to real life, etc), I don't buy it. I've been playing video games and watching movies involving guns for years. While I'm not going to deny a certain interest in them, I have no desire to grab one and start shooting real people.

  5. #25
    Smashes through the wa Miss_igirisu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Mie
    Posts
    7,017

    Default

    All I know is that i know 8 year old kids who go to juku in cities 2 hours away by train every week alone and are safe, when back home it's common for people to have sories of an uncle touching them in a wrong way or something.

    I'm not sure what my views are on controlling free speech and what not are, my heart says that this is all wrong but my head says that there if people can play violent games and stuff then why can't they read manga like this?

    I do really dislike how people see Japanese culture as sick and bad though. For every sick manga of a kid out there there is a sick drawing of a Disney princess or dora the explorer on the net. And people don't bother to worry about that. But if it's from japan, it's always wrong, isn't it. Sucks.
    Quote Originally Posted by tenderRondo View Post
    they said your uk blood has extremely high levels of tea and crumpets in it.
    http://osharejunks.blogspot.com/

  6. #26

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by word View Post
    I think that Kall is overblowing a problem that involves an incredibly small minority of children in Japanese society. I don't really blame her, though, because I think modern media has done a fantastic job of scaring the shit out of parents and concerned people all over the world.
    .
    At least once a week someone tells me about how much safer the world once was, how you could leave your doors unlocked, etc. I avoid pointing out that those things were never okay, it was just collective stupidity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiggit View Post
    But what if we reverse the polarity of the quantum string theory? According to uncertainty principle there are infinite worlds out there, so it stands to reason schrodinger's cat is alive in one of them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Apollo87;
    U da real mvp.

  7. #27
    Senior Moment Antonath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Living on the edge of sanity
    Posts
    6,582

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss_igirisu View Post
    I do really dislike how people see Japanese culture as sick and bad though. For every sick manga of a kid out there there is a sick drawing of a Disney princess or dora the explorer on the net. And people don't bother to worry about that. But if it's from japan, it's always wrong, isn't it. Sucks.
    The problem is that the west see animation and cartoons as being children's entertainment: they're seen as genres rather than media. Whereas in Japan, anime or manga is just another way of telling a story, with no more age bias than film or novels.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Kegger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    1,247

    Default Re: Save the imaginary children?

    That link is blocked at my school *sadface*

  9. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegger View Post
    That link is blocked at my school *sadface*
    A Swedish court has ruled that it is illegal for people to own certain drawings of imaginary children:
    A Swedish appeals court imposed a fine of 5,600 kronor ($864) on translator of Japanese manga on Friday because drawings stocked on his hard drives were considered child pornography.
    The material was not made public, but the 27-year-old top manga expert’s sentencing by a lower court in June had raised the question whether it could be considered child pornography.
    Lundström said the drawings, seized during a police search at his home, circulated freely in Japan and did not, unlike pornography, portray real children.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiggit View Post
    But what if we reverse the polarity of the quantum string theory? According to uncertainty principle there are infinite worlds out there, so it stands to reason schrodinger's cat is alive in one of them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Apollo87;
    U da real mvp.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Kegger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    1,247

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by uthinkimlost? View Post
    At least once a week someone tells me about how much safer the world once was, how you could leave your doors unlocked, etc. I avoid pointing out that those things were never okay, it was just collective stupidity.
    +1.

  11. #31
    Senior Member kalliea's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Middle of Wheat field USA --> Middle of Rice field Japan-->Middle of Cornfield, USA
    Posts
    11,955

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by uthinkimlost? View Post
    At least once a week someone tells me about how much safer the world once was, how you could leave your doors unlocked, etc. I avoid pointing out that those things were never okay, it was just collective stupidity.
    You're talking to someone who still doesn't lock her doors.

    That being said I didn't say rapist were lurking around every corner waiting to jump on unsuspecting school children. I just said that in Japan child abuse was less reported.

    I'm all for these comics. They might not be my particular cup of tea, and maybe I would have a problem with them being sold in the average conbini where the kids can see them, but what goes on in people's bedrooms is has nothing to do with outsiders. I can't imagine being jailed/fined for owning a comicbook.
    Numbers and colors are my bread and butter

  12. #32
    Feckless Manchild Otaku word's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    日本
    Posts
    18,421

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kalliea View Post
    You're talking to someone who still doesn't lock her doors.
    I don't make a habit of it, but I've been known to leave my doors unlocked from time to time. I once went on a weekend vacation with my house unlocked, laptop and stuff all out on the table, etc. Been known to leave my car running while I run into the combini. These are things I would never, ever, ever have done back home in the 'States.

    Quote Originally Posted by kalliea View Post
    That being said I didn't say rapist were lurking around every corner waiting to jump on unsuspecting school children. I just said that in Japan child abuse was less reported.
    And I'm just not sure that fact is true. I would imagine that a large amount of child abuse also goes unreported in the 'States... and pretty much every other part of the world, too. All I know is, as Miss I pointed out, I see kids running around, walking to school, taking trains, riding bicycles, etc. even when they're alone/parents are nowhere to be seen. I would not see these things back home (certainly not to the extent that I see them in Japan, anyway).
    Quote Originally Posted by 00Bear00 View Post
    When I read your post I suddenly feel like I am so far away from being crazy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ananasboat View Post
    It's festivals days like these on which I really try really hard to make up for not partying in college.
    yeah, because who needs free flowing drugs and alcohol fueling adventorous sex with taut, lithe young bodies when you could wander around a dying town in the freezing cold with a can of asahi super dry in your hand while some toothless old farmer shouts at you.

  13. #33
    Senior Moment Antonath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Living on the edge of sanity
    Posts
    6,582

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by word View Post
    All I know is, as Miss I pointed out, I see kids running around, walking to school, taking trains, riding bicycles, etc. even when they're alone/parents are nowhere to be seen. I would not see these things back home (certainly not to the extent that I see them in Japan, anyway).
    How much of that is due to the whole "parents refuse to take responsibility for their children" thing that's been discussed recently?

  14. #34
    Smashes through the wa Miss_igirisu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Mie
    Posts
    7,017

    Default

    Even if parents aren't taking responsability, do you think a 8 year old kid would get on a train alone again after being molested on one?
    Quote Originally Posted by tenderRondo View Post
    they said your uk blood has extremely high levels of tea and crumpets in it.
    http://osharejunks.blogspot.com/

  15. #35
    Senior Moment Antonath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Living on the edge of sanity
    Posts
    6,582

    Default Re: Save the imaginary children?

    If it was the only way to get to school and all their parents had said was "it's traditional. Gaman and don't complain", probably.

    Ok, that's taking things to an extreme, I admit, but most of these kids are out by themselves because they have no other option.

  16. #36
    Smashes through the wa Miss_igirisu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Mie
    Posts
    7,017

    Default

    No. I can tell you that if a child is sexually abused, they will be mentally scarred and will not want to go to/do whatever they were doing when it happened. They would be hikikomori if they had no other choice.
    Quote Originally Posted by tenderRondo View Post
    they said your uk blood has extremely high levels of tea and crumpets in it.
    http://osharejunks.blogspot.com/

  17. #37
    Senior Member Jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    662

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Antonath View Post
    If it was the only way to get to school and all their parents had said was "it's traditional. Gaman and don't complain", probably.

    Ok, that's taking things to an extreme, I admit, but most of these kids are out by themselves because they have no other option.
    sorry dude but thats just total crap. The kids are out there because people feel safe with letting their kids do it and 99% of the time they are... If they thought it wasnt safe they wouldnt let their kid do it.
    How are you? Yes yes!

  18. #38
    Senior Member kalliea's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Middle of Wheat field USA --> Middle of Rice field Japan-->Middle of Cornfield, USA
    Posts
    11,955

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss_igirisu View Post
    Even if parents aren't taking responsability, do you think a 8 year old kid would get on a train alone again after being molested on one?
    Yes. Absolutely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss_igirisu View Post
    No. I can tell you that if a child is sexually abused, they will be mentally scarred and will not want to go to/do whatever they were doing when it happened. They would be hikikomori if they had no other choice.
    Most children who are abused once are abused multiple times. One time things are actually very rare. 8 year olds might not even understand what happened, let alone be able to explain to their parents. I once heard an 8 year old explain what she saw when she walked in on her mom giving daddy head. It was like 'daddy had a popsicle in his lap and mommy was eating it. But daddy looked sad, and he was making weird noises.'
    Numbers and colors are my bread and butter

  19. #39
    Senior Member kalliea's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Middle of Wheat field USA --> Middle of Rice field Japan-->Middle of Cornfield, USA
    Posts
    11,955

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jojo View Post
    sorry dude but thats just total crap. The kids are out there because people feel safe with letting their kids do it and 99% of the time they are... If they thought it wasnt safe they wouldnt let their kid do it.
    In 2001, a survey of two private high-schools in Tokyo revealed that more than 70% had been groped on the train.
    If 70% have been groped, it isn't exactly 99% safe.

    But I like idea of making women and children only cars they are doing in Tokyo.
    Last edited by kalliea; February 3rd, 2011 at 11:00.
    Numbers and colors are my bread and butter

  20. #40
    Senior Member Jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    662

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kalliea View Post
    If 70% have been groped, it isn't exactly 99% safe.

    But I like idea of making women and children only cars they are doing in Tokyo.
    i thought we were talking about 8 year olds not 16 and 17 year olds - also tokyo has a oretty bad rep for chikan generally
    How are you? Yes yes!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •