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Thread: JET should be abolished

  1. #121
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    adelbert I really wish you`d stop wittering on about money. I really don`t see what relevance it has to your argument. I understand you think its wasteful to pay `so much money` (I will come back to this later), but if JET paid less, they`d still get applications and the scheme would continue in much the same way. I don`t think anyone is going to quibble over a few man a month less if they are desperate to get to Japan (which a lot of JETs are). Money has nothing to do with your perceived problems.

    Going back to the `JETs get a huge wage` issue. afraid you`re wrong on that. They offer the normal graduate wage as far as I as a Brit am concerned. If I got a job back home at graduate entry level I`d expect about the same in terms of pay. You`re also forgetting that where as at home you get your yearly wage increase, JET is a fixed payment throughout the duration of your stay. JET is not about raking in the money for me or for a lot of the people I know here. If JET paid less, I`d still be here because it`s actualy an amazing oppertunity.

    Sure, private companies pay less, but what does that actually have to do with your opinion of the JET programme? The private schools have totally different aims to JET, and a totally different style of teaching. I fail to see how comparing the wages of two completely different institutions is furthering your argument.

    I think these issues have already been covered but I wanted to reiterate them in the hope you`d shut up about money and go back to the actual meat of your argument.

  2. #122
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    Oh, an important point that just occured to me regarding the pay. It only feels like a lot because I'm single, and used to living on nothing during university. To the JETs with family, and especially children, I expect life is a good deal tighter. If the salary was reduced as you seem to believe it should be, what about those with families? Even 1st year teachers can support families on their pay, why should we be any different when JET loves couples?

    Come on, no one ever sees all their salary. Back home in the UK you lose 25% of it to various compulsory taxes before it even arrives. I see about 250,000 per month, but considering the missing amount pays my rent, funds a cool annual office trip, fun enkais, and a massive pension rebate when i leave, i can suck it up for now.

    Matt

    PS. I love the avatar... very appropriate!
    Mabushiii!!!

  3. #123
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    My last comment for the day.

    Paul: Thanks for quoting your number. Everyone knows that not all the money ends up in our bank accounts. Using salaries from websites seemed a workable solution. It seems more reasonable than basing a discussion of the JET program on your personal takehome pay.

    Jane: Since you know what my argument really is and since it is different from what I'm writing about perhaps you could enlighten me. I'm happy to talk about something else that I wrote, and try to explain myself.

    Matt: The point about families is one I hadn't thought of. In terms of a salary to attract families JET might be doing the right thing. Glad you like the avatar.

    - Jeremy

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul
    I think this whole thread / argument is getting petty, and I'm struggling to be bothered to read the posts here. Some people are making really good arguments, but, you're not.
    It is getting petty and it might be s good time to abandon the thread. I'm going to start another thread about problems with JET and ideas for overcoming them. Hopefully it will be more productive.
    People can contribute if they want.

    As to my arguments, I do wonder if you don't think they are good arguments simply because you don't agree with them. I don't mean this as a petty attack. It's easier to find problems with opinions you don't share.

    Anyway, I'm going to focus on other things for a while. I've been distracted by this forum for long enough.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelbert
    My last comment for the day.
    Liar liar pants on fire! you do realise that I'm going to have to call you a liar after every post you make from now on.

    Lies make baby jesus cry
    Great men of action never mind on occasion being ridiculous; in a sense it is part of their job.

  6. #126
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    I could just edit my posting......

  7. #127
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    hm sounds like the sound of someone who can no longer defend their arguments...
    "could you use a slave, you hairy bunch of Ishmolites?"
    www.oitajets.com

  8. #128
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    and I could call you a "ass ramming cock sucker" but it wouldnt get us very far would it?
    Great men of action never mind on occasion being ridiculous; in a sense it is part of their job.

  9. #129
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    No longer can or no longer will.

    EDIT: No it wouldn't IniKamoze, and that's why I haven't edited it out.

  10. #130
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    I'm tired of pissing into the wind. I admit it. I'm not retracting my arguments, but I can't see much point repeating them endlessly.

    One of the criticisms was that writing about problems with JET here wouldn't achieve anything. Hopefully the other threat about problems/solutions will. Time to see whether ITIL posters can be productive.

  11. #131
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    liar
    Great men of action never mind on occasion being ridiculous; in a sense it is part of their job.

  12. #132
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    Ini, Hush!
    "could you use a slave, you hairy bunch of Ishmolites?"
    www.oitajets.com

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelbert
    Time to see whether ITIL posters can be productive.
    Good luck!

    I hate to say this adelbert, but something smells funny about you. You smell more like a failed applicant than an ex-JET for some reason and I don't know why. I'd be more specific but I can't put my finger on it. Sorry.

  14. #134
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    adelbert, I have read your argument but thanks for condescending me on that one.

    If there are 6000 JETs earning 300,000/month then the JET program costs more than 1,800,000,000 in salaries (more because 300000 is after tax). 6000 AEON workers would cost (after tax) 1,422,900,000, a difference of 377,100,000. Decreasing JET salaries to AEON levels would mean that JET could employ 1500+ extra teachers. Allow for a premium salary above Aeon levels and JET could still employ more teachers than it does now.
    There you go. You compared JET to private Eikawas. You stated that JET costs more to do essentially what AEON can do for less. You implied that this is wasteful
    Allow for a premium salary above Aeon levels and JET could still employ more teachers than it does now.
    .

    Your original argument went from being a broad critique of miuse and misdirection of funds to you basically saying JET pays too much. At least, thats the way I see it. And, as far as I can see, JETs getting paid too much wasn't the meat of your argument, rather that the money would be better directed elsewhere. So that begs the question why you got into quoting salaries and then slagging Paul off when he gave you a real life example.

    Sorry to flog a dead horse so to speak folks, but I hate been condescended and I couldn''t let that one fly.

  15. #135
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    Sorry I got testy and slagged Paul off. Plenty of posts have attacked me and my credibility and it's hard to remain dispassionate. I took offence to Paul posting "Oh give it up" in response to a perfectly reasonable question I asked. When I went on to say that I was happy to abandon the thread it degenerated into a final round of comments denigrating me.

    Jane, I ended up posting my arguments repeatedly and trying to clarify them while also trying to fend off attacks on me. Some of my postings were about small parts of my argument, but I wasn't abandoning what I previously said. When you told me to get back to the meat of my argument I got a little pissed off. It seemed as though people weren't even bothering to read my arguments and were instead simply launching into tirades against me. Sorry I condescended you.

    As to flogging a dead horse, well I'll leave it to you. I've had enough of repeating myself and copping shit from ever other poster. I really just want this thread to die. I want to get back to other things that I should be working on.

    Fyrey, sorry I smell funny. I'm not going to even try to prove that I'm not simply a failed applicant. I tried justifying myself and explaining my arguments. I failed. Now let the thread die or continue without me. I'll return when I can post a quiet comment without attracting everyone's attention.

    I had no intention of trolling and to demonstrate this I simply want to fade away and contribute occasionally like many other people.

  16. #136
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    liar
    Great men of action never mind on occasion being ridiculous; in a sense it is part of their job.

  17. #137
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    I agree with Dynamis. You get what you pay for. As Bill Gates found out a persons paycheck is an indicator of how valuable you are to your company. Almost every Microsoft employee will tell you that although they work hard it is a good place to work. There is a reason that JET has a better reputation. They pay better so they get better quality personnel and the people know it and usually act accordingly. How many companies can claim that ex-employees volunteer to help them recruit new employees to work for them. There may be a few moldy apples in the group but overall it is a better class of teacher and person in general. I have read BD and other sites along with this one and most definitely this site run by JET's is a better quality site than the others. I try to visit this one quite often where I barely glance at the others now although I still check the JET groups on yahoo for new listings. There is an used car dealer trick about painting the valve covers with fresh paint so that people think the engine has just been rebuilt or has been garaged most of its life. People thinking they are getting a bargain use these gilded facades to make their judgment on purchasing. JET wants the actual best and not the gilded facade. Because of this they are willing to show their respect for these people by paying the way they do. Overall I think they have the correct idea. Show them that you think they are valuable and they try to live up to your expectations. Show them that they are ordinary and they will still live up to your expectations. It is as simple as that.
    Profanity: The last refuge of the limited intellect.

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyrey
    Quote Originally Posted by adelbert
    Time to see whether ITIL posters can be productive.
    Good luck!

    I hate to say this adelbert, but something smells funny about you. You smell more like a failed applicant than an ex-JET for some reason and I don't know why. I'd be more specific but I can't put my finger on it. Sorry.

    I go away for a long weekend and this thread has ballooned up.

    I'm in complete agreement with Fyrey regarding you. You are most certainly erudite, but you do seem unable to distinguish good conversation with circular drivel. While this is much harsher comment on the opinions you have provided, I am still glad you have made your comments, as it has certainly made for distracting reading, although you seem to be focussed on the notion of making generalised statements (JET should be abolished, JET should take pay cuts), and do so in a way that doesn't really allow for constructive commentary from the other posters on this thread.

    Given the slamming you were given at the start of this thread, as well as your continued wishes to let this die, it seems that you feel under pressure from the comments made to you/about you. Part of me therefore wonders if this is stopping you from actually having a discussion, as all I see from you is a continued presentation of your opinions, without a willingness to engage in meaningful conversation.

  19. #139
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    On the subject of paycuts-

    I was speaking with someone who was on the JET program 10 years ago.
    The wage then was exactly the same.
    I am not familiar with Japanese levels of inflation but this would seem to me to be an excellent wage then as it is an ok wage now.

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