Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 51

Thread: Advice:Should I study after Genki II?

  1. #21
    Comrade therealwindycity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    The Chicago of Japan
    Posts
    3,949

    Default Re: Advice:Should I study after Genki II?

    Quote Originally Posted by DickForce View Post
    I still have no idea why people study kanji, as though it were a thing. Do you also study syllabic blocks and latin/greco roots while learning English? It's a writing system, study it as it applies to words you learn. Doing anything else is overcomplicating things for no payoff. The only thing kanji study is good for is preparation for the kanji kentei, and you shouldn't even be thinking about that for five years.
    Kanji study has been helpful for when I'm reading novels and textbooks completely in Japanese. I wouldn't say that it was extremely useful for daily life, but it isn't completely without merit.

  2. #22
    chill yo coop52's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Atlanta->Tottori
    Posts
    4,627

    Default Re: Advice:Should I study after Genki II?

    It's good if you want to be able to read and figure out new words without consulting a dictionary every 5 minutes.

  3. #23
    Billy Big Bollocks Ini's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Posts
    28,772

    Default Re: Advice:Should I study after Genki II?

    It's good for figuring out the general meaning of the announcements written on the staffroom blackboard and the staff meeting memos.
    Great men of action never mind on occasion being ridiculous; in a sense it is part of their job.

  4. #24
    Gizmoduck - blatherskite Gizmotech's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    A depressingly cold place...
    Posts
    10,070

    Default Re: Advice:Should I study after Genki II?

    Knowing how to write them too (if you do heisig like he tells ya, not just use it to make flash cards) also makes it a lot easier to guess hand written kanji. You know the stroke order of everything and can properly write it, so you can sort of reverse engineer the more illegible crap.

    @DickForce, I agree that Genki has a limit, but I wouldn't call it super super basic. It's been enough for me to use here as a base to build on. Usually wasn't the grammar screwing with me but more the missing vocab from those books. Your comparison about roots is actually rather interesting, as people DO study roots in English language learning. They study affixation and suffixation for standard common uses, while also studying the root words and learning how to guess/infer new meaning from a compound word.

    Also, kanji kantei 5 years? LOL. It can be done much quicker than that if you want to do it, especially if you're not going for anything past 2. That being said, my friend wrote 2, then wrote pre1 in the next testing period. He said it wasn't hard, just a lot of very similar kanji to remember w/o very clear meanings.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cytrix View Post
    Organising anything with ALTs is like herding cats on catnip

    Quote Originally Posted by Antonath View Post
    We Jeeperneez are express all emotion through money. Wedding is happy money. Funeral is sad money. Izakaya is friendship money. Girl-bar is almost-sex money. But babby-borning is bery happy money, as no babby in Japan. All babby is special so we is givings much money as presento for babby.

  5. #25
    chill yo coop52's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Atlanta->Tottori
    Posts
    4,627

    Default Re: Advice:Should I study after Genki II?

    Yeah kanken isn't that hard until you get to the upper levels. If you can do JLPT and write fairly well, you're set. I haven't done it yet since I'm really shit at remembering how to write the damn things.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Advice:Should I study after Genki II?

    Quote Originally Posted by therealwindycity View Post
    Kanji study has been helpful for when I'm reading novels and textbooks completely in Japanese. I wouldn't say that it was extremely useful for daily life, but it isn't completely without merit.
    You're not telling me why kanji study is important, you're telling me why learning kanji is important, which is still a natural result of studying new vocabulary words and their readings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gismotech
    Also, kanji kantei 5 years? LOL. It can be done much quicker than that if you want to do it
    Yeah, sure, if you want to spend month after month cramming nothing but rote rehearsal strokes and readings instead of, say, actually learning Japanese. Most standard learners of Japanese would say 4-6 years is ample time to fully learn the joyo kanji.

    Also, I do remember lessons on suffixes and prefixes, but I never drilled any of them. Just being aware of the existence of suffixes and prefixes, and through studying word interplay such as synonym-antonym relationships, I was able to formulate a root/base pattern for determining the meanings of new words without having to memorize classical root words to that benefit. Would learning Latin and Greek have helped me? Sure, but not as much as just learning English. Same thing with kanji, learning the words and how to read them is more important than trying to figure out the building blocks. Japanese think oppositely to this idea, but 1. they know most of the words they're learning kanji for before they learn kanji, unlike JSL students and 2. they don't know half as many characters on average as Chinese, who study characters in the context of vocabulary.

  7. #27
    Billy Big Bollocks Ini's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Posts
    28,772

    Default Re: Advice:Should I study after Genki II?

    Japan is so lucky you are coming to save itself from its inferior methods of teaching both English and Japanese! Do you have any plans to shake up the social studies and math programs while you are here?
    Great men of action never mind on occasion being ridiculous; in a sense it is part of their job.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Advice:Should I study after Genki II?

    Because Japan's history program is cutting edge, amirite?:V

  9. #29
    Billy Big Bollocks Ini's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Posts
    28,772

    Default Re: Advice:Should I study after Genki II?

    no worse than any other countries
    Great men of action never mind on occasion being ridiculous; in a sense it is part of their job.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Advice:Should I study after Genki II?

    In any case, Japanese can learn kanji however they wish, and you can learn kanji however you wish as well. If you think the Japanese style works for you, you can pursue what 120 million people can accomplish with 2200 to 2500 characters. If you would rather use the Chinese approach, you can pursue what over 1 billion people can accomplish with 3000 to 4000 characters. It's f*cking up to you, I'm just offering advice. Take the stick out.

  11. #31
    Billy Big Bollocks Ini's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Posts
    28,772

    Default Re: Advice:Should I study after Genki II?

    the chinese approach also includes viciously beating your children unless they learn those 4000 characters. if you wish to support cruel regime of child abuse then be my guest.
    Great men of action never mind on occasion being ridiculous; in a sense it is part of their job.

  12. #32

    Default Re: Advice:Should I study after Genki II?

    Quote Originally Posted by DickForce View Post
    Take the stick out.
    I can try if you like but it seems pretty deep. How'd you get this so far up your own arse anyway?

  13. #33

    Default Re: Advice:Should I study after Genki II?

    The AJATT guy did the remember the Kanji a long with other things and basically got to N1 in 18 months. Having the Kanji meanings basically opens up a whole host of resources for you to learn the language instead of through boring ass textbooks.
    Last edited by jwkelley; April 16th, 2013 at 15:53.

  14. #34
    Comrade therealwindycity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    The Chicago of Japan
    Posts
    3,949

    Default Re: Advice:Should I study after Genki II?

    Quote Originally Posted by DickForce View Post
    You're not telling me why kanji study is important, you're telling me why learning kanji is important
    ...

    Quote Originally Posted by DickForce View Post
    Yeah, sure, if you want to spend month after month cramming nothing but rote rehearsal strokes and readings instead of, say, actually learning Japanese. Most standard learners of Japanese would say 4-6 years is ample time to fully learn the joyo kanji.
    Ugh I can just tell you're going to be one of those people all the ALTs avoid at gatherings because you'll tell them all they're learning Japanese the "wrong way"


    Quote Originally Posted by DickForce View Post
    who study characters in the context of vocabulary.
    Nobody said you weren't allowed to study vocabulary at the same time

    Quote Originally Posted by DickForce View Post
    root/base pattern and similar bullshit
    yawn

    Quote Originally Posted by DickForce View Post
    Most standard learners of Japanese would say
    Most "standard learners" of Japanese agree on nothing except bickering with each other

  15. #35
    Senior Member zombiekelly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    1,020

    Default Re: Advice:Should I study after Genki II?

    I just use Kanji Look and Learn. It's only 512 characters but it has pretty pictures. How else am I going to understand 肉 if there isn't a picture of a ham leg next to it?
    Quote Originally Posted by word View Post
    Beaming down a rainbow into a San Francisco apparently inhabited exclusively by The Village People? It really says it all about Star Trek, imho.

  16. #36

    Default Re: Advice:Should I study after Genki II?

    Quote Originally Posted by jwkelley View Post
    The AJATT guy did the remember the Kanji a long with other things and basically got to N1 in 18 months. Having the Kanji meanings basically opens up a whole host of resources for you to learn the language instead of through boring ass textbooks.
    Heisig isn't a boring ass textbook?
    If he did "other things" that Heisig might not be the key factor. I'm not going to tell you that kanji study is of no benefit to your ability to pick up the Japanese language, but it's a real question of efficiency and if you can really make yourself benefit from worrying about building blocks instead of holistic elements, in which case the vocabulary method might be better for you. I dunno, do a study on it or something.

    Quote Originally Posted by therealwindycity
    ...
    Kanji study is the process of studying radicals, readings, etc. focusing on the kanji itself. It is a method of learning kanji. This is, for example, as opposed to learning kanji by learning how to read vocabulary words as soon as they come your way, which is more a vocabulary study which also includes the benefit of learning kanji. They are not synonymous terms.

    Quote Originally Posted by therealwindycity
    Ugh I can just tell you're going to be one of those people all the ALTs avoid at gatherings because you'll tell them all they're learning Japanese the "wrong way"
    I'm not going to tell anyone who doesn't ask me how to learn Japanese. And if people do ask me how to learn Japanese and choose not to take my advice, I'm not going to hound them about it. Like I said already, I'm just giving advice, don't take it if you don't like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by therealwindycity
    Nobody said you weren't allowed to study vocabulary at the same time
    If studying kanji twice over is what it takes for you to learn it, be my guest. Otherwise if you can learn it through one unified method of study, you might find yourself saving time and the total inconvenience of poring over radicals and readings.

    Quote Originally Posted by therealwindycity
    Most "standard learners" of Japanese agree on nothing except bickering with each other
    Yes

  17. #37
    Member dvac002's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    29

    Default Re: Advice:Should I study after Genki II?

    So can a consensus be reached by stating that if your goal is to achieve functional conversational Japanese, kanji is not important? I headed over to a JLPT resource site and interestingly enough, my grammar seems to be at JLPT2ish level, whereas my kanji reading is embarrassingly at JLPT 5 -_- ! I don't plan on taking any tests as such, but is my Japanese way too lopsided?

  18. #38
    Billy Big Bollocks Ini's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Posts
    28,772

    Default Re: Advice:Should I study after Genki II?

    nah, you'll be able to communicate with people which is the main thing. You might struggle to keep up with whats happening at school if you cant read anything and understanding if the letter you just got is vitally important or just an invitation to sign up for a subscription to boyz magazine but if you can speak the lingo then you can always just ask someone to read what it says out to you.
    Great men of action never mind on occasion being ridiculous; in a sense it is part of their job.

  19. #39

    Default Re: Advice:Should I study after Genki II?

    Yes, learning everything else is more important than learning the written language. And the prohibitive difficulty of the writing system means that most people will lap their writing ability with their vocabulary. On the other hand, if you try to learn vocabulary with readings, your kanji might catch up, so it's worth a try

  20. #40

    Default Re: Advice:Should I study after Genki II?

    Quote Originally Posted by DickForce View Post
    Heisig isn't a boring ass textbook?
    If he did "other things" that Heisig might not be the key factor. I'm not going to tell you that kanji study is of no benefit to your ability to pick up the Japanese language, but it's a real question of efficiency and if you can really make yourself benefit from worrying about building blocks instead of holistic elements, in which case the vocabulary method might be better for you. I dunno, do a study on it or something.
    s
    No the Kanji study was a key factor. He actually oddly studied kanji meaning before anything else. Other things include various forms of input which would not of been possible without the intense Kanji studying.

    As for the advice thing, I think i will heed Gizmos advice far more than yours. He is very well read on second language acquisition and generally knows what he is talking about on this subject, probably more than anyone else on this forum.
    Last edited by jwkelley; April 17th, 2013 at 02:17.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •