Will my English education degree help?

[HorseFeathers]

I understand. And I too am not without my snarky side on the internet. And I know the admin on this site are doing their best to cut down on some of the negativity. I don't fault the moderation staff, of course. Nor do I think everyone needs to change their tune and sing every potential's praises.

It's such a tricky balance to teeter between. And with the written word not always being the best at conveying dry humor, its hard to tell if someone is just making a harmless joke or if they actually meant to hurt.

I guess what I'm trying say is that I understand why it's hard to moderate. And I appreciate whatever efforts are going down behind the scenes to keep this site up. Because all that aside, this site has been one of my useful resources to applying to JET.

[Antonath]

I'm fairly certain this isn't going to end well, but as an occasional optimist, I'm not going to shut things down just yet. I haven't done any pruning despite how far from the topic we've got, because I'd hate for people to think we were simply deleting stuff that dealt with moderation. That's a perfectly valid topic for discussion, but how about we keep it at discussion and not where I think this is heading, hmm?

[Jiggit]

But if someone is actively antagonizing other members for the sheer fun of it, are we simply going to protect them because the REST of us should be adults? That seems a bit backwards to me.

I don't see how anyone in this thread was deliberately antagonising OP at all. The problem is that everyone wants to say their bit and it feels like everyone is having a go. But if you actually read what people said it was all sincerely-meant advice. It may have been unhelpful advice that didn't apply to him, but we can't help that. For example plenty of stuff word says is a load of nonsense that's barely relevant to anyone that he only says because he wants to write a massive thesis about his thoughts on the matter, but that's not bullying or antagonising people on purpose and he does mean to help. Very few people on this forum actually try to antagonise or bully new people. It's just that people nowadays can't handle honesty and interpret it as meanness.

There are a few members like ini who like to attack people purely for the fun of it but for some reason that is beyond me the mods tolerate this kind of sh1tposting and engage him rather than just deleting the posts. Sure he is very helpful sometimes but I don't know why that means you can't delete his posts when he isn't.

[Jiggit]

Hey! I said nothing you didn't deserve to have said to you! I stand by every word in that PM.

This is the kind of shit I'm talking about. To be brutally honest, word, I would put you near the top of the list of problematic posters (in terms of making people feel bullied).

[word]

This is the kind of shit I'm talking about. To be brutally honest, word, I would put you near the top of the list of problematic posters (in terms of making people feel bullied).

I probably would, too.

Don't hesitate to call me on that sh*t, though. I usually feel really crappy when someone calls me out on my sh*t and do a lot of self-examination following such an accusation. I don't want to be mean and never intentionally set out to do so.

[Jiggit]

Well I'm probably near the top as well, it's just that I'm not a mod.

Like I said, I think most of the problem is that we have a lot of people (myself included) who have a lot of spare time and love the sound of their own voices (or the sight of their posts I guess) and so if any question is even remotely interesting it's a fair bet there's going to be at least 5 people who immediately write massive posts that basically all say the same thing with minor variations. Those people will probably then start having a debate with each other as well. So people are going to feel intimidated by that. Added to that is the problem of people expecting everyone to be ridiculously nice to them like in the official forums. Or tumblr or whatever; I assume that's where all the weeaboos come from anyway.

The reason I mention it is because eminate's thread was one of the better ones in which we posted honest if blunt advice and she took it on board fairly well. Until people started going off on their personal vendettas about religion. You represent this site as much as anyone does and regardless of your personal views it had nothing to do with the thread. If you really want to pick a fight with religious people there are plenty of other places on the internet where you can do so.

And I don't really care what this site becomes, tbh but if you really want to this site to be more open or get new members it seems pretty obvious what needs to be done.

[word]

The reason I mention it is because eminate's thread was one of the better ones in which we posted honest if blunt advice and she took it on board fairly well. Until people started going off on their personal vendettas about religion. You represent this site as much as anyone does and regardless of your personal views it had nothing to do with the thread. If you really want to pick a fight with religious people there are plenty of other places on the internet where you can do so.

This is probably true. Things got out of hand quickly.

TBH, I don't think I would let that situation happen again. The thread to which you are referring was actually one of the ones that prompted me to archive Applying and re-boot it. I'm making much more of an effort to keep this place under control; the other mods are clearly doing the same. I already feel like this line of discussion needs to be spun out of this thread, though I'm hesitant to do so, as it seems to be generating some good discussions and I don't really want to risk killing it.

And I don't really care what this site becomes, tbh but if you really want to this site to be more open or get new members it seems pretty obvious what needs to be done.

I dunno; I feel like we've made some progress on that front. Not a lot, maybe... but some. I should make more of an effort to behave myself, but this is an ongoing issue for me. If I look at my history, though, I've actually improved quite a bit, and I have no reason to doubt I will continue to do so in the future.

[Gizmotech]

Just to add something to Eminate's seniority statement. The vast majority of posters here on ITIL have been an ALT for at least 2 or 3 years. Some finished ALT work and have moved on to other endeavors in Japan. We may actually know more about Japanese Education, and have reversed engineered more of the JET programme than some of the consulate interviewers (I know I have now worked in Japan a year longer than both the interviewer on my panel AND the programme coordinator at the time and will be here at least 2 years longer than they were). We have been at this for quite a while, some (such as the infamous Ini) have seen soo many ALTs come and go that they have built up a pretty decent profile of what makes a successful ALT as well as a successful applicant. Honestly, being able to put up with this level of internet harassment is actually a pretty good measure of how an ALT will fair in Japan given how.... insensitive? the Japanese can be.

While many of us can be... direct? It is usually a reaction to having experienced all types of ALTs.

I'll say this, if I hadn't lived near one of the WORST ALTs I have EVER heard of, I probably wouldn't even be involved in the aspiring process or have ever spent any time on mains. I might be mean spirited at times, but in the interest of protecting my work environment there are certain character types that I could do without (and so could the JET programme). Unfortunately, it's not always easy evaluating this through the interwebs.

[spman2099]

This is probably true. Things got out of hand quickly, and I was absolutely responsible for exposing, arousing, and goading eminate's awful nature. I suppose I got what I deserved.

TBH, I don't think I would let that situation happen again. The thread to which you are referring was actually one of the ones that prompted me to archive Applying and re-boot it. I'm making much more of an effort to keep this place under control; the other mods are clearly doing the same. I already feel like this line of discussion needs to be spun out of this thread, though I'm hesitant to do so, as it seems to be generating some good discussions and I don't really want to risk killing it.

I dunno; I feel like we've made some progress on that front. Not a lot, maybe... but some. I should make more of an effort to behave myself, but this is an ongoing issue for me. If I look at my history, though, I've actually improved quite a bit, and I have no reason to doubt I will continue to do so in the future.

I actually agree that you have improved A LOT. I was reading some of the older posts on this forum a while back, and I can assure you, you said some fucked up stuff. There were a few posts that made me laugh pretty hard, but in a context that made me uncomfortable that I found what you said to be so funny. This may sound like I am antagonizing you, Word, but I assure you I am not. I think you have actually shown a great deal of improvement; personally, I think that is all you can really ask of someone. Still, I do agree with Jiggit, you are pretty close to being the face of this forum, you do need to hold yourself to a higher standard. So yeah, keep fighting the good fight.

That being said, I don't think anyone really crossed the line here. People didn't soften their blows, but they weren't particularly unreasonable either. Some of this shit has to be heard. There have been things said that I didn't like the sound of either, but it is better that we hear about it now than later. At least we can brace ourselves for possible culture shocks / reality checks.

[word]

Well, I wasn't always a mod, either! It's been a learning experience for me, to be sure...

[zombiekelly]

TBH I wasn't keen on posting in the lounge at first because you -are- all a bunch of assholes. But as far as life goes, I'd rather hear the truth from an asshole than a bunch of sugar coated lies from official sources. So it's nice that this place has a mix of all kinds.

[Ini]

[johnny]

I agree with Gizmotech. If you can't put up with a bit of ribbing, then you might not be cut out for Japan.

Even if your situation here in Japan is really good, you're going to be dealing with aggravations that are far worse than anything that will be doled out here.

Also, I've received that ribbing myself, but any time it was below the belt I think the mods did a good job of putting a stop to it.

Even some of the more belligerent posters are actually really helpful when you have a good question.

Ini likes giving people a hard time, but he gave a great response to my camera question. One that helped me a ton. He knows a lot too, and I appreciate his input.




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[Kdes23]

You have to take the bad with the good. I come on here because I like giving aspiring ALT's some advice based off of my experiences. It's also a nice place to escape and reminisce on the days of being in their shoes. When Japan was so amazing and mysterious to me. Obviously it loses its luster its true. Maybe not for everyone, but for a lot of us that can see through bullshit it does.

I like seeing honest, non-sugar coated responses. It's what these aspiring ALTs need. The official forums were ok, but wayyyy too sugar coated, and in many respects, way to Japanese. ITIL is great for giving honest answers.

The only thing I don't like is when somehow, the thread takes a spin and it becomes personal. Someone gets criticized in a way that mirrors bullying, or even called names. We're all adults here, there are no excuses for bullying someone- even on an online forum. Some people say that if you can't deal with it then you can't deal with living in Japan. Saying that is such a cop out.

All things said, criticism and honesty is good and needed on these forums.

[Jamie Solo]

I like seeing honest, non-sugar coated responses. It's what these aspiring ALTs need. The official forums were ok, but wayyyy too sugar coated, and in many respects, way to Japanese. ITIL is great for giving honest answers.

I definitely agree with the responses. I've always considered ITIL to be doing some sort of public service to try and make sure stuff like this doesn't happen.

JET Plane.jpg

Taken from: There's Always One... » Life After the B.O.E.

[HorseFeathers]

Again, certainly don't expect to be handled with kid gloves. And I'm all for criticism and honesty. But I'm sure you guys are all aware of the times where lines are crossed and people don't feel comfortable posting anymore. Not saying this particular instance in this thread was one of them (it could have been. I wasn't at the receiving end). I actually didn't think of this response as being that harsh compared to other instances on the site. It was simply brutally honest, which is something I expect from internet forums.

P.S. awesome picture Jamie Solo.