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Thread: American vs British English

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    Gizmoduck - blatherskite Gizmotech's Avatar
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    Default American vs British English

    Japanese people find British accents very difficult to hear owing to the lack of strong consonants and missing consonants. Also doesn't help that it is usually spoken so that there is little differential space between words.

    A good British alt has a clearly enunciated English that sounds almost nothing like British. A bad British alt speaks normally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cytrix View Post
    Organising anything with ALTs is like herding cats on catnip

    Quote Originally Posted by Antonath View Post
    We Jeeperneez are express all emotion through money. Wedding is happy money. Funeral is sad money. Izakaya is friendship money. Girl-bar is almost-sex money. But babby-borning is bery happy money, as no babby in Japan. All babby is special so we is givings much money as presento for babby.

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    Perpetually confused. johnny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fun With Numbers - Acceptance Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by Gizmotech View Post
    Japanese people find British accents very difficult to hear owing to the lack of strong consonants and missing consonants. Also doesn't help that it is usually spoken so that there is little differential space between words.

    A good British alt has a clearly enunciated English that sounds almost nothing like British. A bad British alt speaks normally.
    There are loads of different British accents. Even just within London there are many different accents. The BBC announcer accent is very easy to understand for instance.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ini View Post
    Teach them something new?? Are you mad? All you do in Japan is rehash the same stuff over and over for 15 years. Hello song, what do you like sports? and fruit basket. The holy trinity of English education.

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    Constant Fu*kup sharpinthefang's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fun With Numbers - Acceptance Rates

    Journalists are trained to speak in certain ways, as to lose any strong 'regional' accents before facing the public. Having grown up in the South-East, and now living in the South-West, my accent is considered 'posh', however i grew up in one of the roughest parts of the South-East, so accent is all about perception and who taught you to speak.

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    Default Re: Fun With Numbers - Acceptance Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by Gizmotech View Post
    Japanese people find British accents very difficult to hear owing to the lack of strong consonants and missing consonants. Also doesn't help that it is usually spoken so that there is little differential space between words.

    A good British alt has a clearly enunciated English that sounds almost nothing like British. A bad British alt speaks normally.
    What Johnny said, though I don't usually jump on the "nurrrr what's a British accent, there are so many accents in Britain" bandwagon, is true.

    Also I don't see what basis you have at all for saying that British accents lack strong consonants. I'm usually happy to say "AE and BE are just just different and neither is better or worse" but honestly I would say British consonants are far clearer for Japanese people specifically to understand. Being non-rhotic fits more to katakana English (as do a number of other factors). British people pronounce mid-word "t" as "t" rather than "d" and our pronunciation of "o" doesn't sound like Japanese ア to them. I can't really think of ways that British people pronounce consonants that is more difficult to Japanese and if you have any justification for that statement other than personal experience then I'd like to hear it.

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    Default Re: Fun With Numbers - Acceptance Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny View Post
    There are loads of different British accents. Even just within London there are many different accents. The BBC announcer accent is very easy to understand for instance.


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    Not to Japanese learners it isn't. When going from a maximal contrast language like Japanese, to a minimal contrast English like BrE, it can be very difficult to process. As sad as it is to say, American Standard English being the phonetically and grammatically older version of English (therefore closer to our more guttural German cousins) makes it easier to hear. Combine that with media exposure of American Standard and British English becomes an unintelligible stream of vowels.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cytrix View Post
    Organising anything with ALTs is like herding cats on catnip

    Quote Originally Posted by Antonath View Post
    We Jeeperneez are express all emotion through money. Wedding is happy money. Funeral is sad money. Izakaya is friendship money. Girl-bar is almost-sex money. But babby-borning is bery happy money, as no babby in Japan. All babby is special so we is givings much money as presento for babby.

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    Default Re: Fun With Numbers - Acceptance Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by Gizmotech View Post
    Not to Japanese learners it isn't. When going from a maximal contrast language like Japanese, to a minimal contrast English like BrE, it can be very difficult to process.
    What do you mean by minimal contrast and why is British English like that while American English isn't? With actual solid examples/evidence please.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gizmotech View Post
    As sad as it is to say, American Standard English being the phonetically and grammatically older version of English (therefore closer to our more guttural German cousins) makes it easier to hear.
    Firstly this retarded American circlejerk about American English sounding closer to older English or shakespeare's English or whatever has no actual evidence behind it. Received Pronunciation is a modern invention and sounds less close to original English than AE, yes. But a majority of British people don't speak like that. Rural people in England speak with an accent that sounds far closer to what scholars think the chaucerian/shakespearian accent (that modern English evolved from) sounded like than Americans.

    Secondly, why on earth would sounding more archaic or closer to German make that English easier for Japanese to understand? I'm not going to understand Japanese easier if it sounds more like old Japanese or Chinese or whatever.

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    Constant Fu*kup sharpinthefang's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fun With Numbers - Acceptance Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by Jiggit View Post
    What do you mean by minimal contrast and why is British English like that while American English isn't? With actual solid examples/evidence please.



    Firstly this retarded American circlejerk about American English sounding closer to older English or shakespeare's English or whatever has no actual evidence behind it. Received Pronunciation is a modern invention and sounds less close to original English than AE, yes. But a majority of British people don't speak like that. Rural people in England speak with an accent that sounds far closer to what scholars think the chaucerian/shakespearian accent (that modern English evolved from) sounded like than Americans.

    Secondly, why on earth would sounding more archaic or closer to German make that English easier for Japanese to understand? I'm not going to understand Japanese easier if it sounds more like old Japanese or Chinese or whatever.
    I have to agree that the rural parts of the UK sound more 'old speak' than some of the more urban areas. As a historian, i spend a huge amount of time reading olde erngish documents (spelt deliberately) and believe me, with no standardised way of spelling things, you have to sound things out loud sometimes to understand what is being said. When you sound it out, you get the 'old english' accent. When you live in a urban area, you are constantly surrounded by different accents and using new words, therefore accents tend to blend more, which is why people start to think we all sound alike.

    I can grantee that if you compared Scottish, Welsh, Irish, or even northern and southern accents you would find a huge amount of regional varieties. Even english people struggle to understand other english at times!

    From the Japanese language that i have studied, it appears that Japanese language is all about the phonetic alphabet, whereas BE and AE is a mixture of the phonetic and 'normal' alphabet.

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    Default Re: Fun With Numbers - Acceptance Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by Jiggit View Post
    What do you mean by minimal contrast and why is British English like that while American English isn't? With actual solid examples/evidence please.
    Intervocalic consonant deletion (dropped T sounds for instance). Non-rhotic R (makes vowels functionally longer and reduces contrast between phonetically similar words)


    Firstly this retarded American circlejerk about American English sounding closer to older English or shakespeare's English or whatever has no actual evidence behind it. Received Pronunciation is a modern invention and sounds less close to original English than AE, yes. But a majority of British people don't speak like that. Rural people in England speak with an accent that sounds far closer to what scholars think the chaucerian/shakespearian accent (that modern English evolved from) sounded like than Americans.

    Secondly, why on earth would sounding more archaic or closer to German make that English easier for Japanese to understand? I'm not going to understand Japanese easier if it sounds more like old Japanese or Chinese or whatever.
    I never said it sounds closer to Shakespeare. I said it was older. It preserved a few things like rhotic R (which German funnily enough didn't, just like BrE). It finished the intervocalic voicing switch which was in progress at the time, rather than go back towards the hard consonant artificially (which eventually resulted in the glottal stop in things like bottle).

    Why sounding like German would be better? Harder consonants with sharp vowels to hear.

    Also in general, arguments over spelling vs. phonetic realization are pointless because as a whole English is an amazingly broken spelling system. Neither spelling system is superior to the other as both are just horrific. It's one of the few good things a simpler phonetic language like Japanese, or a language which reinvented their spelling system like Korean, has over English which got locked in the Early Modern English transitional spelling structure.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cytrix View Post
    Organising anything with ALTs is like herding cats on catnip

    Quote Originally Posted by Antonath View Post
    We Jeeperneez are express all emotion through money. Wedding is happy money. Funeral is sad money. Izakaya is friendship money. Girl-bar is almost-sex money. But babby-borning is bery happy money, as no babby in Japan. All babby is special so we is givings much money as presento for babby.

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    Default Re: Fun With Numbers - Acceptance Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by Gizmotech View Post
    Intervocalic consonant deletion (dropped T sounds for instance). Non-rhotic R (makes vowels functionally longer and reduces contrast between phonetically similar words)
    I have no idea what T sounds you're referring to. If it's that common then give me some example sentences or words and tell me how BrE drops the T. And like I said above, non-rhoticity fits far more with katakana English and how Japanese attempt to speak English with no pronunciation instruction. I notice you still didn't address my points about the things that make American English harder for Japanese to understand.

    I never said it sounds closer to Shakespeare. I said it was older.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiggit View Post
    older English or shakespeare's English... Received Pronunciation is a modern invention and sounds less close to original English than AE... Rural people in England speak with an accent that sounds far closer to what scholars think the chaucerian/shakespearian accent (that modern English evolved from)
    Don't cherry-pick. Address what I actually said.

    It finished the intervocalic voicing switch which was in progress at the time
    If you're going to use academic terms that google has zero results for then you're going to have to explain what you're talking about.

    Why sounding like German would be better? Harder consonants with sharp vowels to hear.
    This doesn't become more true the more times you assert it.

    Also in general, arguments over spelling vs. phonetic realization are pointless because as a whole English is an amazingly broken spelling system. Neither spelling system is superior to the other as both are just horrific. It's one of the few good things a simpler phonetic language like Japanese, or a language which reinvented their spelling system like Korean, has over English which got locked in the Early Modern English transitional spelling structure.
    I'm not talking about spelling.

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    Default Re: Fun With Numbers - Acceptance Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by Jiggit View Post
    I have no idea what T sounds you're referring to. If it's that common then give me some example sentences or words and tell me how BrE drops the T. And like I said above, non-rhoticity fits far more with katakana English and how Japanese attempt to speak English with no pronunciation instruction. I notice you still didn't address my points about the things that make American English harder for Japanese to understand.
    Classic example would be the various between Bottle with a hard T, bottle with a soft T, and bottle with a stop.

    I didn't address it because you said understand. Are you talking about production or listening. I might not have been clear, but I was talking about listening.


    Don't cherry-pick. Address what I actually said.
    older English or shakespeare's English... Received Pronunciation is a modern invention and sounds less close to original English than AE... Rural people in England speak with an accent that sounds far closer to what scholars think the chaucerian/shakespearian accent (that modern English evolved from)
    Okay, I'm not denying there are parts of the England that use a variety of dialects. Hell, according to the English Language history book on my desk, your little island has more variations and dialects than the rest of the world combined (as of 2000, published 2006). I also agree that quite a few of them are even older than AE. But when we compare the languages as groups, we compare RP (BrE) and AE/AS and your RP is a modern invention.


    If you're going to use academic terms that google has zero results for then you're going to have to explain what you're talking about.
    Sorry, you used rhotic and I assumed a deeper knowledge than I should have. I'm talking about two things, Intervocalic voicing, and language shift over time. Intervocalic voicing is the process where a consonant, between two vowels will naturally prefer to assume the features of the vowels surrounding it, especially if the vowels and the consonant have similar production features. We see it a lot today in /s/ for instance, in the phrase "apples are" and "apples can". The /s/ in the first becomes a /z/ naturally, where as in the second it retains its /s/ features. So lets talk about bottle for a second, and how it's intervocalic voicing switch/shift. The vowel /o/ having shrunk in AE requires the /t/ to attach to it, instead of being in the onset of /ul/, and then changes to /d/ do to being at the end of a coda with a vowel onset beside it. In AE, if it weren't for the damned printing press we would actually just write it as "bodle" and be done with it. This was a natural shift in English words that was happening around the time of the split.

    This doesn't become more true the more times you assert it.
    Okay, so lets drop that for a second and ask you this. An American English speaker talking quickly compared to a British English speaker talking quickly, which is easier to understand?

    I'm not talking about spelling.
    You did when you talked about BE saying T and AE saying D for the same word. That's a spelling problem, where British kept the hard T sound (and longer vowel more importantly) and America English did not. Yay mid change stupidity.

    And now that that fun is over (and it's getting really hard to type... owww), I'll bring this back to my original statement because you just gave me some great ammo for it from a different angle.

    If RP is a modern invention, and most people don't speak it, why would a Japanese school want to get a British JET when god forbid they could get RP which is okay enough, or they could get some chav from Sunderland (I actually like my local chav, nice guy. Easy to listen to... not like the whore from liverpool last year.... god). Why would they want to teach their kids ow to say ouse because most of Britain is /h/ initial droppers.

    Finally, because I figured a wiki search might help my case.
    Comparison of General American and Received Pronunciation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Basically everything in this list says two things
    a) Japanese people can speak British English easier
    b) They will never be able to listen to it because the contrasts are all so heavily reduced.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cytrix View Post
    Organising anything with ALTs is like herding cats on catnip

    Quote Originally Posted by Antonath View Post
    We Jeeperneez are express all emotion through money. Wedding is happy money. Funeral is sad money. Izakaya is friendship money. Girl-bar is almost-sex money. But babby-borning is bery happy money, as no babby in Japan. All babby is special so we is givings much money as presento for babby.

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    Default Re: American vs British English

    Moved from Applying. Please remember this part of ITIL is moderated as well.
    ...because Japan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sharpinthefang View Post
    Journalists are trained to speak in certain ways, as to lose any strong 'regional' accents before facing the public. Having grown up in the South-East, and now living in the South-West, my accent is considered 'posh', however i grew up in one of the roughest parts of the South-East, so accent is all about perception and who taught you to speak.
    Oh wow, that's really interesting. I suppose Canadian and American journalists are trained in a similar way, although in Canada regional dialects are not quite as varied (save for Newfoundland).

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny View Post
    Oh wow, that's really interesting. I suppose Canadian and American journalists are trained in a similar way, although in Canada regional dialects are not quite as varied (save for Newfoundland).
    Internally we can perceive our regional dialects pretty well. Prairie English is very different to West Coast English, Ontario southern area is different from eastern and north Ontario. The Atlantics are completely different. Then there's that silly little island where noone understands what anyone is saying on it anyways.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cytrix View Post
    Organising anything with ALTs is like herding cats on catnip

    Quote Originally Posted by Antonath View Post
    We Jeeperneez are express all emotion through money. Wedding is happy money. Funeral is sad money. Izakaya is friendship money. Girl-bar is almost-sex money. But babby-borning is bery happy money, as no babby in Japan. All babby is special so we is givings much money as presento for babby.

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    Default Re: Fun With Numbers - Acceptance Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by Gizmotech View Post
    Classic example would be the various between Bottle with a hard T, bottle with a soft T, and bottle with a stop.
    As far as I'm concerned RP pronounces T harder than AmE, which pronounces the tt in that words as "d" and the "o" as an "a". The word "bottle" in RP would be far easier to understand for the average Japanese for those reasons. I assume.

    Okay, I'm not denying there are parts of the England that use a variety of dialects. Hell, according to the English Language history book on my desk, your little island has more variations and dialects than the rest of the world combined (as of 2000, published 2006). I also agree that quite a few of them are even older than AE. But when we compare the languages as groups, we compare RP (BrE) and AE/AS and your RP is a modern invention.
    I said that from the beginning. My point is you can't claim AmE is easier to understand than RP because it's "older" but plenty of UK dialects are even older than AmE.

    The other point you make contradicts that and says because AmE has harder consonant sounds it's easier to understand but in your example RP has harder consonant sounds.

    Sorry, you used rhotic and I assumed a deeper knowledge than I should have. I'm talking about two things, Intervocalic voicing, and language shift over time. Intervocalic voicing is the process where a consonant, between two vowels will naturally prefer to assume the features of the vowels surrounding it, especially if the vowels and the consonant have similar production features. We see it a lot today in /s/ for instance, in the phrase "apples are" and "apples can". The /s/ in the first becomes a /z/ naturally, where as in the second it retains its /s/ features. So lets talk about bottle for a second, and how it's intervocalic voicing switch/shift. The vowel /o/ having shrunk in AE requires the /t/ to attach to it, instead of being in the onset of /ul/, and then changes to /d/ do to being at the end of a coda with a vowel onset beside it. In AE, if it weren't for the damned printing press we would actually just write it as "bodle" and be done with it. This was a natural shift in English words that was happening around the time of the split.
    OK, got it. But then why does it make AmE easier to understand? Like I said, the RP pronunciation of "bottle" is fairly similar to Japanese sounds (ボトル) whereas the American sound seems far less hard and further from Japanese.

    Okay, so lets drop that for a second and ask you this. An American English speaker talking quickly compared to a British English speaker talking quickly, which is easier to understand?
    This is a daft question and kind of betrays what I suspected (that you simply assume AmE is easier to understand because you are used to it and it seems obvious to you). Of course British English is easier to understand. I'm British. Same goes for regional dialects.

    You did when you talked about BE saying T and AE saying D for the same word. That's a spelling problem, where British kept the hard T sound (and longer vowel more importantly) and America English did not. Yay mid change stupidity.
    What I meant was that I'm not arguing about whether American or British English spelling is superior, sorry that wasn't clear. In terms of spelling being close to pronunciation I'd say this: we're talking about Japanese people being able to follow different English dialects. Most Japanese learn English mainly through reading words written down and practicing it with other Japanese speakers who speak with katakana/Japanesey English. Therefore they are used to hearing a word like ボトル and will be able to understand it easier than the natural pronunciation. If you speak katakana English to Japanese they can understand you a LOT easier, I'm sure most of us agree. I think RP is closest to katakana English and for that reason (regardless of whether it's a sign of the Japanese shitty English education or not) RP is easier to understand for Japanese listeners.

    If RP is a modern invention, and most people don't speak it, why would a Japanese school want to get a British JET when god forbid they could get RP which is okay enough, or they could get some chav from Sunderland (I actually like my local chav, nice guy. Easy to listen to... not like the whore from liverpool last year.... god). Why would they want to teach their kids ow to say ouse because most of Britain is /h/ initial droppers.
    Two things here. Despite it's "artificial" origins, nowadays a lot of people speak in a way that is close to RP and dialects in the British Isles are fairly rapidly merging towards it. Also RP is closer to stuff like Australian English, which is also useful for Japanese.

    Second, I think we're getting confused because there are two points going on here. One is a comparison between RP and standard AmE. In that point I think that RP is easier for Japanese to both understand and pronounce and haven't yet been convinced as to any reason why it isn't.

    Secondly local dialects of British English. I never said scouse or west country or whatever is easier for Japanese to understand. The reason I brought it up is because you were talking about AmE being easier to understand because it's older. Whereas some dialects in Britain are older still and yet I don't think they are easy for Japanese to understand at all. And you kept saying that AmE was better because being older it had harder, more distinct consonant (and vowel?) sounds and was therefore better than RP. I can't see how RP doesn't have the harder sounds.

    Comparison of General American and Received Pronunciation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Basically everything in this list says two things

    b) They will never be able to listen to it because the contrasts are all so heavily reduced.
    I actually read that before you replied and came to the conclusion that RP has stronger contrasts. I still am completely unconvinced as to how AmE has harder contrasts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiggit View Post
    As far as I'm concerned RP pronounces T harder than AmE, which pronounces the tt in that words as "d" and the "o" as an "a". The word "bottle" in RP would be far easier to understand for the average Japanese for those reasons. I assume.
    Are you saying you hear the words Battle and Bottle as homophones? The only part of the US where the o in bottle is so different from BrE is New York.

    I said that from the beginning. My point is you can't claim AmE is easier to understand than RP because it's "older" but plenty of UK dialects are even older than AmE.
    I absolutely can claim that, because we're not talking sub dialects, we're talking the overall dialect.

    The other point you make contradicts that and says because AmE has harder consonant sounds it's easier to understand but in your example RP has harder consonant sounds.
    I'll give up on this one because I have no more supporting proof on me to argue the point. I know it to be true, I studied it, but I don't have the resources to prove it. You win.

    OK, got it. But then why does it make AmE easier to understand? Like I said, the RP pronunciation of "bottle" is fairly similar to Japanese sounds (ボトル) whereas the American sound seems far less hard and further from Japanese.
    I never said that bottle was a good example. You did. I was just explaining the difference. I agree that Bottle in RP is easier to understand. You have a fully realized /t/ we have a voiced pair with either a missing sound or a perceived /d/ from a super short /t/ sound.



    This is a daft question and kind of betrays what I suspected (that you simply assume AmE is easier to understand because you are used to it and it seems obvious to you). Of course British English is easier to understand. I'm British. Same goes for regional dialects.
    Is it? AmE isn't the easiest one for me to hear. Neither is BrE. I much prefer Australian at high speed. Mind you though, that was to highlight another problem with British English, that NaE hasn't fixed yet, but AuE has, massively reducing it's vowel set finally. Maybe that's purely a bilingual problem though.


    What I meant was that I'm not arguing about whether American or British English spelling is superior, sorry that wasn't clear. In terms of spelling being close to pronunciation I'd say this: we're talking about Japanese people being able to follow different English dialects. Most Japanese learn English mainly through reading words written down and practicing it with other Japanese speakers who speak with katakana/Japanesey English. Therefore they are used to hearing a word like ボトル and will be able to understand it easier than the natural pronunciation. If you speak katakana English to Japanese they can understand you a LOT easier, I'm sure most of us agree. I think RP is closest to katakana English and for that reason (regardless of whether it's a sign of the Japanese shitty English education or not) RP is easier to understand for Japanese listeners.
    I agree that speaking in Katakana English makes reception more productive, but completely defeats the purpose of listening training all together. Are you gonna argue then that all RP words sound closer to Japanese, and therefore should be used? I'm not arguing that AmE is close to Japanese at all, I'm arguing that it has stronger consonant contrasts (and arguing very poorly at that.... really wishing I had my books) which makes it easier for foreigner language learners to perceive the language.

    Two things here. Despite it's "artificial" origins, nowadays a lot of people speak in a way that is close to RP and dialects in the British Isles are fairly rapidly merging towards it. Also RP is closer to stuff like Australian English, which is also useful for Japanese.

    Second, I think we're getting confused because there are two points going on here. One is a comparison between RP and standard AmE. In that point I think that RP is easier for Japanese to both understand and pronounce and haven't yet been convinced as to any reason why it isn't.

    Secondly local dialects of British English. I never said scouse or west country or whatever is easier for Japanese to understand. The reason I brought it up is because you were talking about AmE being easier to understand because it's older. Whereas some dialects in Britain are older still and yet I don't think they are easy for Japanese to understand at all. And you kept saying that AmE was better because being older it had harder, more distinct consonant (and vowel?) sounds and was therefore better than RP. I can't see how RP doesn't have the harder sounds.
    Just consonants. AmE has less vowels than RP does, you have more variety there (which could be a good thing if they distinguish between two words that are otherwise homophones, or bad if they are just variation for the sake of style). That would make AmE vowels more distinct.....

    THAT'S IT. I KNEW I WAS FORGETTING SOMETHING.

    brain rambling... god I wish I had my book.
    regularized vowels in a reduced set, with limited variation, assist in creating more distinct consonant perception in any language by reducing the voicing effect of vowels through the consonant, except in those places where it is surrounded by... sonerants? dual voiced consonants.

    I actually read that before you replied and came to the conclusion that RP has stronger contrasts. I still am completely unconvinced as to how AmE has harder contrasts.
    Either way, I can't argue this correctly without my books, and I can't be arsed to go find more information online or deal with google scholar (Takes over a minute to load google.com right now) . I will say this, whenever I meet Japanese people with my friend (who does speak RP... sounds kinda like you did actually) they can't understand him. They can understand me. They can understand the Irish man in the group... sorta (he makes funny sounds). They can't understand the RP unless he slows to an almost grinding halt and over enunciates.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cytrix View Post
    Organising anything with ALTs is like herding cats on catnip

    Quote Originally Posted by Antonath View Post
    We Jeeperneez are express all emotion through money. Wedding is happy money. Funeral is sad money. Izakaya is friendship money. Girl-bar is almost-sex money. But babby-borning is bery happy money, as no babby in Japan. All babby is special so we is givings much money as presento for babby.

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    Perpetually confused. johnny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fun With Numbers - Acceptance Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by Gizmotech View Post
    Internally we can perceive our regional dialects pretty well. Prairie English is very different to West Coast English, Ontario southern area is different from eastern and north Ontario. The Atlantics are completely different. Then there's that silly little island where noone understands what anyone is saying on it anyways.
    Maybe I have a tin ear for our dialects, but when I travel to Toronto a lot of people correctly peg me for a Vancouverite. They claim they hear it in my voice, and how can I doubt them? I wasn't wearing my Lions or Canucks jersey at the time, so my clothing wouldn't have given it away.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ini View Post
    Teach them something new?? Are you mad? All you do in Japan is rehash the same stuff over and over for 15 years. Hello song, what do you like sports? and fruit basket. The holy trinity of English education.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Fun With Numbers - Acceptance Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by Gizmotech View Post
    Are you saying you hear the words Battle and Bottle as homophones? The only part of the US where the o in bottle is so different from BrE is New York.
    Not quite. I think this might be an example of how in academics people don't fully consider the range of sounds going on. The "o" in American English sounds closer to what RP speakers would write as "a". And Japanese too. Why do you think it's "oh mai gaa" and not "oh my goo"? When you pronounce the "o" in words like "god" or "not" it sounds like the "a" in the word "saw". Whereas the o in "ノット" sounds identical to how RP speakers say it.

    Is it? AmE isn't the easiest one for me to hear. Neither is BrE. I much prefer Australian at high speed. Mind you though, that was to highlight another problem with British English, that NaE hasn't fixed yet, but AuE has, massively reducing it's vowel set finally. Maybe that's purely a bilingual problem though.
    That's weird. I'd assume most people can understand what they are used to easiest. For me most all dialects in the UK are fairly easy to follow except maybe the broadest scots accent. I've heard Americans say that Indian or South African English is tricky but for me it's not too bad. Whereas I saw a TV show the other day with some old dudes from I think Virginia that I could barely follow. And there are times when Americans are difficult to understand. The words "can" and "can't" have different vowel sounds and the "t" is more strongly enunciated in RP so I often have no idea whether Americans are saying something can or can't be done.

    I agree that speaking in Katakana English makes reception more productive, but completely defeats the purpose of listening training all together. Are you gonna argue then that all RP words sound closer to Japanese, and therefore should be used? I'm not arguing that AmE is close to Japanese at all, I'm arguing that it has stronger consonant contrasts (and arguing very poorly at that.... really wishing I had my books) which makes it easier for foreigner language learners to perceive the language.
    Nah my point isn't that we should change anything, I think the current plan of hiring ALTs from all over and exposing kids to a variety is fine. I just took issue with your claim that Japanese could understand AmE better. I'd probably even be fine with saying they are equally difficult/easy to follow.

    Either way, I can't argue this correctly without my books
    OK, can't really address this or the other stuff until then tho...

    I will say this, whenever I meet Japanese people with my friend (who does speak RP... sounds kinda like you did actually) they can't understand him. They can understand me. They can understand the Irish man in the group... sorta (he makes funny sounds). They can't understand the RP unless he slows to an almost grinding halt and over enunciates.
    See I was avoiding anecdotes but I've been told fairly often that my hatsuon is ii for understanding. Japanese flattery sometimes ofc but it includes several old dudes who I know wouldn't bother to bullshit me. And I often watch American ALTs explaining shit to kids at our summer camp and it feels like they are just kind of rambling and slurring and I just want to slap them and say "for god's sake, enunciate, man!"

  18. #18
    Gizmoduck - blatherskite Gizmotech's Avatar
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    Default Re: American vs British English



    My friend just linked it today.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cytrix View Post
    Organising anything with ALTs is like herding cats on catnip

    Quote Originally Posted by Antonath View Post
    We Jeeperneez are express all emotion through money. Wedding is happy money. Funeral is sad money. Izakaya is friendship money. Girl-bar is almost-sex money. But babby-borning is bery happy money, as no babby in Japan. All babby is special so we is givings much money as presento for babby.

  19. #19

    Default Re: American vs British English

    That's cool, though everything he did was a pretty soft version of those accents. I think someone mentioned BBC accents earlier but funnily recent BBC newsreaders are usually people with regional accents like this; comprehensible (by anyone in England) with just a twinge of regional.

    If you listened to my mum talk with her sisters I doubt you'd follow it very well.

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