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Thread: Japenglish: Shit that's wrong in textbooks.

  1. #41
    Gizmoduck - blatherskite Gizmotech's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japenglish: Shit that's wrong in textbooks.

    Quote Originally Posted by webstaa View Post
    eh... Proscriptivism is the style of grammar and linguistics that proscribes (makes rules) for every grammatical possibility. It's competitor is Descriptivism, in which they make statements about how the grammar is understood. For the most part, Proscriptivism grew out of 18th and 19th Century Georgian and Victorian English grammaticians who starts farting up English with BS pseudo-Latin and pseudo-Greek rules and spellings to make things 'make sense.' If there is one thing the giant clusterfuck of the English language doesn't do, its 'make sense.'

    For the most part, the only problem's I've come across is 'I come to school by (bike).' - In common usage, 'I ride my bike to school.' is more popular (same for 'I ride the bus to school,' but not so much for 'I come to school by car.' - which would probably be 'I'm driven to school.' (Which they'd learn two years later(ish).)
    Spot on with your definitions.

    The "I come to" is the result of over translated Japanese, where in Japanese the action is the travelling, not the way in which you do it. It's the same issue as "I came to love ice cream" which is amazingly overused in SHS textbooks, but yet would be used as a began to/started to in English (we're start focused, not result focused)
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    We Jeeperneez are express all emotion through money. Wedding is happy money. Funeral is sad money. Izakaya is friendship money. Girl-bar is almost-sex money. But babby-borning is bery happy money, as no babby in Japan. All babby is special so we is givings much money as presento for babby.

  2. #42
    Pimpin wenches aint easy BeckyJones's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japenglish: Shit that's wrong in textbooks.

    same thing as. And so on... In Japanese they use など all the fucking time, and "and so on" is a translation of など the problem is, in English we typically would use "etc" or in many situations, we wouldn't say it at all.
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    His dying breath will not be how sorry he is to leave his wife or children, but it will be saved to insult Jiggit.
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    Hello song, what do you like sports? and fruit basket. The holy trinity of English education.

  3. #43
    Perpetually confused. johnny's Avatar
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    Default Japenglish: Shit that's wrong in textbooks.

    Okay, u feel super stupid for even asking this , but here goes.

    My school uses the New Horizons textbook. There is something in the textbook for first graders that seems like a mistake to me.

    There is a dialogue where a student asks an English teacher: "Do you teach here every day?" To which the teacher responds "No, I teach here Monday and Friday".

    Now, it seems to me like the teacher is referring to a regularly occurring activity given the context of the student's question. Therefore, shouldn't she have said "I teach here Mondays and Fridays" with the two days being pluralized?
    Last edited by johnny; June 24th, 2014 at 10:18.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ini View Post
    Teach them something new?? Are you mad? All you do in Japan is rehash the same stuff over and over for 15 years. Hello song, what do you like sports? and fruit basket. The holy trinity of English education.

  4. #44
    Feckless Manchild Otaku word's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japenglish: Shit that's wrong in textbooks.

    Yeah, probably, but that's such a minor mistake I can't imagine worrying much about it.
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    It's festivals days like these on which I really try really hard to make up for not partying in college.
    yeah, because who needs free flowing drugs and alcohol fueling adventorous sex with taut, lithe young bodies when you could wander around a dying town in the freezing cold with a can of asahi super dry in your hand while some toothless old farmer shouts at you.

  5. #45
    Perpetually confused. johnny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japenglish: Shit that's wrong in textbooks.

    It's not a big deal at all, I just get paranoid about my level of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ini View Post
    Teach them something new?? Are you mad? All you do in Japan is rehash the same stuff over and over for 15 years. Hello song, what do you like sports? and fruit basket. The holy trinity of English education.

  6. #46
    Gizmoduck - blatherskite Gizmotech's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japenglish: Shit that's wrong in textbooks.

    Something about it seems okay to me though, and I can't figure out why. Gimme an hour or two to figure it out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cytrix View Post
    Organising anything with ALTs is like herding cats on catnip

    Quote Originally Posted by Antonath View Post
    We Jeeperneez are express all emotion through money. Wedding is happy money. Funeral is sad money. Izakaya is friendship money. Girl-bar is almost-sex money. But babby-borning is bery happy money, as no babby in Japan. All babby is special so we is givings much money as presento for babby.

  7. #47
    Senior Member kenkennif's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japenglish: Shit that's wrong in textbooks.

    I would be more concerned about what the hell does that creepy bastard get up to on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays.

  8. #48
    Gizmoduck - blatherskite Gizmotech's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japenglish: Shit that's wrong in textbooks.

    Got it. It's a contextual ellipsis. In the answer is the word every, but because it is a present tense conjunction we assume the word every as part of the meaning. That's some high level omission right there.

    Really they should pluralize it, but I don't think they deal with plurals till second or third year in jhs right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Cytrix View Post
    Organising anything with ALTs is like herding cats on catnip

    Quote Originally Posted by Antonath View Post
    We Jeeperneez are express all emotion through money. Wedding is happy money. Funeral is sad money. Izakaya is friendship money. Girl-bar is almost-sex money. But babby-borning is bery happy money, as no babby in Japan. All babby is special so we is givings much money as presento for babby.

  9. #49
    chill yo coop52's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japenglish: Shit that's wrong in textbooks.

    They do it in first year, in probably the next lesson or two after doing regular verbs. Then, as far I know, most books have singular verbs right after for maximum confusion.

  10. #50

    Default Re: Japenglish: Shit that's wrong in textbooks.

    Quote Originally Posted by kenkennif View Post
    I would be more concerned about what the hell does that creepy bastard get up to on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays.
    kenkennif do you have early onset dementia?

  11. #51
    Pimpin wenches aint easy BeckyJones's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japenglish: Shit that's wrong in textbooks.

    They do plurals after that lesson. I think it is lesson 4 or 5. Either way, until then they throw plurals around like they don't mean anything but mark students wrong for not getting them "right". It is amazingly sad to watch.
    Quote Originally Posted by johnny View Post
    His dying breath will not be how sorry he is to leave his wife or children, but it will be saved to insult Jiggit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ini View Post
    Hello song, what do you like sports? and fruit basket. The holy trinity of English education.

  12. #52
    Comrade therealwindycity's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japenglish: Shit that's wrong in textbooks.

    Quote Originally Posted by webstaa View Post
    'I'm driven to school.' (Which they'd learn two years later(ish).)
    There is a requirement in textbook law that all use of the passive voice must be awkward and unnatural, so this sentence would naturally be excluded in favor of examples like "The car is driven by them."

    Also, can you imagine how many students would say "I am walked to school" after learning this example?

  13. #53
    Perpetually confused. johnny's Avatar
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    Default Japenglish: Shit that's wrong in textbooks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gizmotech View Post
    Got it. It's a contextual ellipsis. In the answer is the word every, but because it is a present tense conjunction we assume the word every as part of the meaning. That's some high level omission right there.

    Really they should pluralize it, but I don't think they deal with plurals till second or third year in jhs right?
    Thanks Gizmo. I didn't think of a contextual ellipsis or anything similar. Even if it is a proper contextual ellipsis though, it sounds darn awkward and unnatural (to me).

    Anyway, as a rule I don't like the textbook using contextual ellipses because they confuse the hell out of the students, and worse yet the JTEs.
    Last edited by johnny; June 24th, 2014 at 14:39.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ini View Post
    Teach them something new?? Are you mad? All you do in Japan is rehash the same stuff over and over for 15 years. Hello song, what do you like sports? and fruit basket. The holy trinity of English education.

  14. #54
    Gizmoduck - blatherskite Gizmotech's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japenglish: Shit that's wrong in textbooks.

    Quote Originally Posted by therealwindycity View Post
    There is a requirement in textbook law that all use of the passive voice must be awkward and unnatural, so this sentence would naturally be excluded in favor of examples like "The car is driven by them."

    Also, can you imagine how many students would say "I am walked to school" after learning this example?
    Umm..... Hi. Welcome to my third year students in SHS....

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny View Post
    Thanks Gizmo. I didn't think of a contextual ellipsis or anything similar. Even if it is a proper contextual ellipsis though, it sounds darn awkward and unnatural (to me).

    Anyway, as a rule I don't like the textbook using contextual ellipses because they confuse the hell out of the students, and worse yet the JTEs.
    Also Hi, welcome to the SHS textbook, where things which are contextual reductions like using the progressive or passive verb forms as adjectives are taught as adjectives rather than reduced forms.

    For instance: The running man is dead (contextually reduced). The man who is running is dead (long form).

    In fact, half of my textbook I regularly remind people that it is the result of special reduction rules in English which are entirely contextually dependent, and not some special shit we pulled out of our ass to make English. (or more accurately, that gerunds don't exist in English, but that everything is a reduction)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cytrix View Post
    Organising anything with ALTs is like herding cats on catnip

    Quote Originally Posted by Antonath View Post
    We Jeeperneez are express all emotion through money. Wedding is happy money. Funeral is sad money. Izakaya is friendship money. Girl-bar is almost-sex money. But babby-borning is bery happy money, as no babby in Japan. All babby is special so we is givings much money as presento for babby.

  15. #55

    Default Re: Japenglish: Shit that's wrong in textbooks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gizmotech View Post
    Umm..... Hi. Welcome to my third year students in SHS....
    Right except then it would be more like "I am goed to school is by walk".

    Surprisingly if all you ask them to do for 2 years is choose a single word in a sentence out of 4 possible options then they can lose their ability to produce such sentences without a script! Weird, huh?

  16. #56
    Perpetually confused. johnny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japenglish: Shit that's wrong in textbooks.

    But that will help them pass the test!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ini View Post
    Teach them something new?? Are you mad? All you do in Japan is rehash the same stuff over and over for 15 years. Hello song, what do you like sports? and fruit basket. The holy trinity of English education.

  17. #57
    Crustacean Sensation Ebi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japenglish: Shit that's wrong in textbooks.

    Quote Originally Posted by therealwindycity View Post
    There is a requirement in textbook law that all use of the passive voice must be awkward and unnatural, so this sentence would naturally be excluded in favor of examples like "The car is driven by them."

    Also, can you imagine how many students would say "I am walked to school" after learning this example?
    So true.

    I also hate having to use "loved" in passive voice sentences. I don't know why that's always one of the first words they teach for passive voice but it sounds unnatural about 99% of the time my students and JTEs try to use it. It seems like as soon as the 2nd years learn "was ~ing" they forget how to do regular past tense. And then once passive is introduced they forget how to do everything because they have a way to translate Japanese awkwardly into English without having to use as many pronouns (like the general "you" that they always struggle with).

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