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Thread: reading exercise help!

  1. #1
    Senior Member jacqui's Avatar
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    Default reading exercise help!

    so today i spent my time doing the 2002 JLPT3 reading section. would someone mind giving it a quick read and tell me if my translation is very wrong? there were some things i didn't know, and just kind of guessed, so i'm not entirely sure if it's right. i'd really appreciate it.

    note: i did use a dictionary too, my vocab isn't great yet.

    zillions of thanks in advance!!

    Japanese:

    あした 車で みどり山へ 行く。 みどり山は 私の いなかに ある。 うちから 山まで ふつうは 3時間ぐらい かかる。 でも、あしたは 土曜日で、道が こむから、少し 早く うちを 出た ほうが いいだろう。 11時までには 山に 着きたい。着いたら、すぐ ひるごはんを 食べる つもりだ。 みどり山には うつくしい みずうみが あって、たくさんの 人が あそびに 来る。 天気が よければ、およいだり、魚を つったり する ことが できる。 ふねにも 乗れる。 私は 魚が つりたい。 でも、天気が あまり よくなかったら、つりは やめて、山で めずらしい 花や 鳥を 見ようと思う。 みずうみの そばに にんぎょうの びじゅつかんが ある。 日本のだけでは なく、世界中 にんぎょうが かざって あるらしい。 時間が あったら、見て みたい。 帰りに いなかの うちに よって、りょうしんと いっしょに ばんごはんを 食べる つもりだ。 母の 料理は ひさしぶりなので、とても 楽しみだ。

    My (probably very bad) translation:

    Tomorrow, I am going to Green Mountain by car. Green Mountain is my village. It takes around three hours to travel from home to the mountain. But tomorrow is Saturday, so the route will be crowded. We will leave home a little early. I want to arrive at the mountain at 11 o clock. The plan is to eat lunch when we arrive. Green Mountain has beautiful sea water; lots of people come to visit. If the weather is good, we can go swimming and catch fish. I also want to ride a boat. I want to catch fish. But if the weather is bad, we will stop fishing. We will look at rare flowers and birds on the mountain. The sea is close to the doll museum. It is the only one in Japan. The inside is supposed to be decorated with dolls. If there is time, I would like to have a look. Then I’ll return to my village home. The plan is to eat supper with my parents. It’s been a long time since I’ve had my mother’s cooking. I’m looking forward to it.

    -----

    thaaaaaaank yoooouuu!!

    ps - wtf is みずうみ? water sea? sea water?

    also didn't understand the 日本のだけでは なく part. isn't naku like a cry, or a bird singing or something? what does that have to do with a doll museum?

    did i just get it totally wrong and i'm now making a tit out of myself?

    pps - i'm aware that みどり山 is the mountain's name and i probably shouldn't be saying "Green Mountain", but i wanted to translate everything.

    phew.

    yet more thanks!!!
    fucking genki

  2. #2
    Senior Member chibitotoro's Avatar
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    みずうみ = 湖 = lake

    Your translation was mostly correct except for a few spots:

    みどり山は 私の いなかに ある。
    Midoriyama is my hometown/where I grew up.

    みどり山には うつくしい みずうみが あって、たくさんの 人が あそびに 来る。
    Midoriyama has a beautiful lake, so many people come to visit.

    ふねにも 乗れる。
    We can also ride a boat/go boating.

    みずうみの そばに にんぎょうの びじゅつかんが ある。
    There is a doll museum located near the lake.

    日本のだけでは なく、世界中 にんぎょうが かざって あるらしい。
    They have dolls not only from Japan, but from all over the world.

    帰りに いなかの うちに よって、りょうしんと いっしょに ばんごはんを 食べる つもりだ。
    On the way home, I'll stop by my parents' house and have dinner with them.


    Other than that, your translation was accurate. Not the most flowing and natural translation of course, but that obviously wasn't your intention. As for the 日本のだけでは なく part, as you can see from my suggested translation, "A だけではなく" means "not only A but...". If you put a space in between では and なく, I can see how it might get confusing.

  3. #3
    Senior Member jacqui's Avatar
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    heh heh. yeh, while typing it i just thought that it was sooo unnatural. but that's not the aim for now, so it's ok.

    thank you sooo much! i can see exactly where i went wrong.

    i had no idea what mizuumi was. lake makes a LOT more sense!! and the doll museum bit confused the hell out of me. :P

    thanks again! sending you mental chocolate. ^_^

    i will no doubt put up the next ones when i tackle those.
    fucking genki

  4. #4
    Senior Member chibitotoro's Avatar
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    happy to help!

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    11時までには 山に 着きたい
    I want to arrive at the mountain at 11 o clock.

    should be "I want to arrive at the mountain by 11am."


    でも、天気が あまり よくなかったら、つりは やめて、山で めずらしい 花や 鳥を 見ようと思う。
    But if the weather is bad, we will stop fishing. We will look at rare flowers and birds on the mountain.

    You're pretty close with this one, but the second clause is dependent upon the first one. So it's saying "if A isn't true, then B", so all you have to do is stick those two sentences together, something to the effect of "If the weather isn't good, I think (we'll) stop fishing and go look at rare flowers and birds on the mountain"

    Chibitotoro, I disagree with a one of your translations (but I could be wrong myself):

    日本のだけでは なく、世界中 にんぎょうが かざって あるらしい。
    They have dolls not only from Japan, but from all over the world.

    I read it as "It's not only Japan, but it seems the whole world that has decorated dolls."

    I know it's clunky, but I was going for the most direct translation to try and get all the pieces to carry over.

  6. #6
    Senior Member chibitotoro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samesong
    Chibitotoro, I disagree with a one of your translations (but I could be wrong myself):

    日本のだけでは なく、世界中 にんぎょうが かざって あるらしい。
    They have dolls not only from Japan, but from all over the world.

    I read it as "It's not only Japan, but it seems the whole world that has decorated dolls."
    Pretty much 100% sure that I'm right. Can we get a third opinion?

  7. #7
    Delicious...and moist! kiwimusume's Avatar
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    Hmmm...hard for me to tell because of the particles (or lack thereof in some places.) I'd be inclined to agree with Chibitotoro based on the context it's in, but my super-bilingual Kocho Sensei is in the staffroom, so I'll get his opinion...

    Yep, he said it's talking about the dolls in the museum.
    Quote Originally Posted by goloons View Post
    My favorite student just tried to BITE MY NIPPLE.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coollead View Post
    Yeah, it's really good stuff. For some reason, they bound it as a book, instead of on a roll. There's 190 pages, which is probably good for at least a few dozen shits.

  8. #8
    Billy Big Bollocks Ini's Avatar
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    I'm fairly sure it means

    "A doll in the world seems to be displayed as well as a thing of Japan."
    Great men of action never mind on occasion being ridiculous; in a sense it is part of their job.

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    Oh, okay. I didn't know that かざる can mean "display", or I guess "shown" in this context. I thought it was strictly decorate. So I thought that かざってある meant "decorated"

  10. #10
    Senior Member chibitotoro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samesong
    Oh, okay. I didn't know that かざる can mean "display", or I guess "shown" in this context. I thought it was strictly decorate. So I thought that かざってある meant "decorated"
    Well I think you could translate it as "decorate" in this context as well...i.e., the museum is decorated with dolls from all over the world.

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    Based on context, I'd agree with chibitotoro on this one.
    The woman expresses her gratitude and goes back to Pope's house and sleeps with him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by revenantkioku
    Based on context, I'd agree with chibitotoro on this one.
    +1

    It's the 'no' that gives it away. 日本の[人形]would be the underlying structure, I'd say. The reference to dolls is just omitted because it's redundant, but the 'no' shows that it's not Japan, but something belonging to Japan - namely the dolls. So it's along the lines of "There are not only Japanese (dolls), but dolls from all around the world" or whatever.

  13. #13
    Billy Big Bollocks Ini's Avatar
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    good to see the moderator of the Japanese forum has such advanced language skills......

    You havent been making videos on youtube about going to macdonalds have you?
    Great men of action never mind on occasion being ridiculous; in a sense it is part of their job.

  14. #14
    Delicious...and moist! kiwimusume's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeCarter
    good to see the moderator of the Japanese forum has such advanced language skills......

    You havent been making videos on youtube about going to macdonalds have you?
    That wasn't you, then? Or are you the gay Japanese dude and want to meet the guy whose sexily crap Japanese entranced you so?
    Quote Originally Posted by goloons View Post
    My favorite student just tried to BITE MY NIPPLE.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coollead View Post
    Yeah, it's really good stuff. For some reason, they bound it as a book, instead of on a roll. There's 190 pages, which is probably good for at least a few dozen shits.

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    日本のだけでは なく、世界中 にんぎょうが かざって あるらしい。

    The の between 日本 and ではなく is the possessive, and refers to dolls(にんぎょう), as a poster previously mentioned. Therefore we have,
    "I hear that the dolls that are displayed there are not only from Japan, but from all over the world."

    One of the things that Chibitoro missed, was the final らしい which indicates that the information is from a third source, and is often translated as "I hear."

    The てある form just means that the verb is 'continuous' in a sense - instead of someone doing something (writing, etc) it refers to something 'being' something -- なまえはこくばんにかいてある, "The name is written on the board(and is still written there)." You can only use this form with transitive verbs, and it negates the need for an object. つくえのうえにおいてある。"It is on top of the desk,(and as far as I know is still there)." The parts in parentheses are the implied parts of the language.

    So, the かざってある means that the dolls are displayed there, and are still being displayed, as far as the writer is concerned. If you used かざっている then the dolls would be the ones doing the displaying.  And I think that would be scary. As far as translation goes, you don't translate the 'still doing' part, but it is good to know that it is there, as something may come up about it in a following sentence. Nuance is fun!

    Hope this clears up more questions than it creates -- it's late and I should not post at midnight.

    Mael.

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    sounds good to me.

  17. #17
    Senior Member chibitotoro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maelgwn
    One of the things that Chibitoro missed, was the final らしい which indicates that the information is from a third source, and is often translated as "I hear."
    So there were other things I missed, too? Enlighten me!

  18. #18
    Billy Big Bollocks Ini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwimusume
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeCarter
    good to see the moderator of the Japanese forum has such advanced language skills......

    You havent been making videos on youtube about going to macdonalds have you?
    That wasn't you, then? Or are you the gay Japanese dude and want to meet the guy whose sexily crap Japanese entranced you so?
    I'd love to take credit for that but I don't speak japanese and I don't have any japanese friends, gay or otherwise.
    Great men of action never mind on occasion being ridiculous; in a sense it is part of their job.

  19. #19
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    Actually, all of the things that you wrote were great! There were just a couple of things in the original post that I thought could be phrased better.

    でも、あしたは 土曜日で、道が こむから、少し 早く うちを 出た ほうが いいだろう。
    But tomorrow is Saturday, so the route will be crowded. We will leave home a little early.

    I would translate this as: But tomorrow is Saturday, and the road'll be crowded, so maybe it would be better to get an early start. (That last section could also be... so we should probably leave early - I was really going for something more natural).

    Another one I saw was mentioned before...
    でも、天気が あまり よくなかったら、つりは やめて、山で めずらしい 花や 鳥を 見ようと思う。
    But if the weather is bad, we will stop fishing. We will look at rare flowers and birds on the mountain.

    I would translate this as,
    However, if the weather isn't too good, we won't fish. I think we'll go look at some rare birds and flowers on the mountain.
    (The parts that I thought needed to be changed, were the fact that the writer does not say bad, the use of やめて isn't so much stop as give up on the idea of fishing, and the use of と思う needs to be addressed as it introduces indecision - they might not do that, who knows.)

    There are other small parts, すぐ was not translated, and the like, but I don't think that the overall translation was affected by this.

    But yeah, that's what I thought.

    Mael.

  20. #20
    Daimyo ***** dombay's Avatar
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    As it's 3q, i don't think the point is a super accurate translation, but impressed nonetheless!

    Where's tochigi?

    Sorry. I get that all the time too.

    "Where are you from?"
    "Okayama"
    "Oh I love Wakayama!"
    "No, no Okayama".
    "Eeh?"
    "Momotaro and osaru hey hey hey"
    "Ooooh ..."
    Melanie: back!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZdDxFsopVs

    'Oh it's so wonderful to be an older woman. All this old stuff to do'

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