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Thread: 日本語で話そう

  1. #21
    Resident ewok wicket's Avatar
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    Pandi,
    Does this mean you don't get your students to read each others' work and look for errors? It's one of the most effective teaching methods for improving writing skills.
    Also, on my laptop I HAVE to press spacebar to get kanji - otherwise it's all just kana. Do you really expect people to press spacebar to get the kanji, choose the right option, then press backspace?
    I'd love to try writing in Japanese on this forum (which is why I often try reading it), but I won't because I can't be arsed having shit hung on me by you.
    Whatever happened to CONSTRUCTIVE criticism?
    "Like anyone with a sliver of honesty in them I believe what I find I believe when I wake up each morning."
    Stephen Fry, The stars' tennis balls

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandilex
    二人でPMを使ったらええかもん
    うわぁぁぁぁぁぁぁぁぁぁぁ! 大阪弁がやっぱ上手だな!すげぇ。








  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by cb
    ところでどうしてそんな汚い関西弁で喋ってるか :P
    まず、関西弁って何?神戸弁?京都弁?播州弁?滋賀弁?奈良弁?
    俺の話す言葉が大阪弁やで☆

    大阪弁は汚ないちゃう。歴史のある言葉やで。文化のある言葉やで。約880万人に話されてる言葉やで。汚いって失礼やねん。

    ごめん。。。眠れないから怒りやすい。

  4. #24
    Pandilex
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    Quote Originally Posted by wicket
    Pandi,
    Does this mean you don't get your students to read each others' work and look for errors? It's one of the most effective teaching methods for improving writing skills.
    I don't teach any classes, so no. Even if I did I wouldn't do that because, sorry to sound arrogant again by having an opinion ( ), it would fail miserably at my school, and unless your school is full of super geniuses, others too.

    Last year the students would translate sentences from Japanese in the textbooks to English and write it on the board and the teacher and I would check them. They usually got about 5% right. They have no idea. 50% is an amazing score on an English text in Japan despite my school previously being 2nd in the area and considered a very high level school by Japanese people.

    They wouldn't have a clue at correcting each others work. Not only that, but this is Japan... to criticize another persons work is a big taboo especially to their face. This is why its so hard to learn Japanese when people don't correct you. I've on occasion used a wrong Japanese phrase for months before being corrected. Last time after several months my gf finally corrected a phrase that I used loads incorrectly...

    Quote Originally Posted by wicket
    Also, on my laptop I HAVE to press spacebar to get kanji - otherwise it's all just kana. Do you really expect people to press spacebar to get the kanji, choose the right option, then press backspace?
    Dunno what you mean, what annoys me is when people turn a sentence into this:

    一昨日、林檎を食べて、拉麺を食べて、学校に行きました。凄く綺麗な桜を見ました。

    when it should be closer to this:

    おととい、りんごを食べて、ラーメンを食べて、学校に行きました。すごくきれいなさくらを見ました。


    Yeah, amazing kanji skills you have posting on a forum and hitting space bar a bunch of times to get obscure or rarely used kanji to show up, is what I think when i read these japanese penis measuring contests.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wicket
    I'd love to try writing in Japanese on this forum (which is why I often try reading it), but I won't because I can't be arsed having shit hung on me by you.
    Whatever happened to CONSTRUCTIVE criticism?
    Add me to ignore then? You've pretty much jumped on the bash pandy bandwagon already, I suspect you prefer to keep calling me arrogant on every thread I post though, you get more of a kick out of it right.

    Why are you bashing me for constructive criticism when most of my aggressive posting comes from a certain fellow who literally posts insults as replies to every post he makes...?

    You've just lost a lot of respect points from me.


    ps: posting 俺 is sooooo uncool

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    Yep. I think peer review is pointless. Talking with non-native speakers of Japanese is also pointless as no one will ever be able to create good Japanese.

    Well, the whole communicative language teaching (CLT) pedagogy would just go down the crapper with that kind of mentality, as would other successful language teaching approaches.

    Communication helps. At the beginning stages of learning any language, you mess up and so does the person next to you. You can at least learn new vocabulary if nothing else. And you can also help someone struggling if you do happen to have amazing language skills.

    I do agree with Pandi about those translations. But those aren't communicative events! There is no real transfer of information going on at all in students' heads, especially with a HS 3 level text about hydroponics and how they can do it too. Who gives a shit.

    Real communicative events (transfer of relevant information) with real people creates a learning environment, native or non-native.

    And this is my arrogant post. Sorry.
    Maybe I just have a different teaching philosophy from others here?

  6. #26
    Cool Cutie Fighter! Hyakuman's Avatar
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    やっぱり気になったから、勝手に聞いちゃう。
    tsugaruzukiは日本語の言葉や文法の使い方が結構見事だと思うんで、
    JLPT1級に受かったのでしょう?

    っていうか…

    僕は大体日本語で書くのを遠慮してしまう。恥ずかしいわけじゃなくて、
    お隣の(微妙な)先生に見られちゃう恐れがあるもんだ。
    あんま好きじゃない、あいつ…

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandilex
    Dunno what you mean, what annoys me is when people turn a sentence into this:

    一昨日、林檎を食べて、拉麺を食べて、学校に行きました。凄く綺麗な桜を見ました。

    when it should be closer to this:

    おととい、りんごを食べて、ラーメンを食べて、学校に行きました。すごくきれいなさくらを見ました。
    I agree, this gets annoying. Stick to kanji that you know, you earn more respect that way.

  8. #28
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    やっぱり気になったから、勝手に聞いちゃう。
    tsugaruzukiは日本語の言葉や文法の使い方が結構見事だと思うんで、
    JLPT1級に受かったのでしょう?

    っていうか…

    僕は大体日本語で書くのを遠慮してしまう。恥ずかしいわけじゃなくて、
    お隣の(微妙な)先生に見られちゃう恐れがあるもんだ。
    あんま好きじゃない、あいつ…
    いいですよ、聞いても。言っときますが、全然見事でも何でもないです。ボクは道端に落ちてる石ころ野郎ですから。^^ 日本語もまだまだですし・・・でも、もっともっと上手くなるように精一杯頑張ってるつもりでいますよ!

    そして、答えは受かったことないです。というか、JLPTに挑戦したこともありません。^^; ボクの住んでいるところはスポケーンというド田舎のところで近くには受ける場所がないんです。シアトルまで行かないと受けさせてもらえなくて未だに勉強中。ですが、一級対策の読解編や問題集、文法編などを手に入れて今度日本行く時に備えて必死で復習しています。(必勝!!って書いてあるハチマキも巻いてね♪ww)JETで日本へ行くことを機会に、今年の末までに受けようと思っています。^^; 一回目は合格できそうにないんですけどね↓↓ :smt005

    ボクは日本語話せるよ~と見せびらかす人が嫌いです。でも、ある程度話せるのならば回りにいる、助けを求めている人に教えることができたら教えればいいと思います。みんなで助け合うじゃないですか!国籍問わず、強い者は弱い者を守る、親から学んだ考えでもあるでしょう。^^; ちょっと本題からずれてきちゃいましたね・・・

    遠慮することない、全く。^^ 隣にいる先生はHyakumanさんが日本語を話すこと知らないんですか?別に恥じることないと思うんですが・・・逆に、このフォーラムでもっと日本語で話す人が増えていったら勉強する気になる人もいるでしょう。そんなの妄想ですかね?ww 

    If no one else wants to speak Japanese, I won't either. But if there are those who want to help each other out with Japanese and learn more, then I would be more than happy to be one of those. :mrgreen:

    Dunno what you mean, what annoys me is when people turn a sentence into this:

    一昨日、林檎を食べて、拉麺を食べて、学校に行きました。凄く綺麗な桜を見ました。

    when it should be closer to this:

    おととい、りんごを食べて、ラーメンを食べて、学校に行きました。すごくきれいなさくらを見ました。


    I agree, this gets annoying. Stick to kanji that you know, you earn more respect that way.
    I second that! I guess it's a kind of inferiority complex people have. The more kanji you know, the "better" you look. But you just look like an idiot if you're using the kanji for ringo, ramen, bara, etc...

    And I apologize for that first post to Pandilex...I guess I was a little hotheaded at the time. Sorry... ops:

  9. #29
    Resident ewok wicket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandilex
    Add me to ignore then? You've pretty much jumped on the bash pandy bandwagon already, I suspect you prefer to keep calling me arrogant on every thread I post though, you get more of a kick out of it right.

    Why are you bashing me for constructive criticism when most of my aggressive posting comes from a certain fellow who literally posts insults as replies to every post he makes...?

    You've just lost a lot of respect points from me.
    Pandi, My comments have nothing to do with other posters. There have been occasions when I've defended you, if you'll recall; but we should be able to have professional disagreements about teaching without getting personal. I don't get any kicks out of calling anyone names, but sometimes your posts come across as arrogant, regardless of how you intend them. It's hard to get tone across on the internet. I'm lucky I'm at a school where kids correcting each others' mistakes is useful and works, but it's not like I get them to just swap papers. I should have explained better - I'm well aware that face-to-face criticism is a no-no here. I type out the common errors (without student names) and kids look for the mistakes; then we go over them in class.
    I also misunderstood what you meant about the kanji thing. I didn't even know there IS a kanji for ramen. But I feel a bit better now about how much of what is posted here I don't understand, given that I'm hoping to pass Level 2 in December.
    It's a shame you've lost respect for me, since my comments weren't meant disrespectfully.
    "Like anyone with a sliver of honesty in them I believe what I find I believe when I wake up each morning."
    Stephen Fry, The stars' tennis balls

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsugaruzuki
    Yep. I think peer review is pointless. Talking with non-native speakers of Japanese is also pointless as no one will ever be able to create good Japanese.

    Well, the whole communicative language teaching (CLT) pedagogy would just go down the crapper with that kind of mentality, as would other successful language teaching approaches.

    Communication helps. At the beginning stages of learning any language, you mess up and so does the person next to you. You can at least learn new vocabulary if nothing else. And you can also help someone struggling if you do happen to have amazing language skills.

    I do agree with Pandi about those translations. But those aren't communicative events! There is no real transfer of information going on at all in students' heads, especially with a HS 3 level text about hydroponics and how they can do it too. Who gives a shit.

    Real communicative events (transfer of relevant information) with real people creates a learning environment, native or non-native.

    And this is my arrogant post. Sorry.
    Maybe I just have a different teaching philosophy from others here?

    Put another way, just look at how good a job Japan does teaching English to itself...

    What do you like sports?

    :smt005

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandilex
    Quote Originally Posted by tsugaruzuki
    Yep. I think peer review is pointless. Talking with non-native speakers of Japanese is also pointless as no one will ever be able to create good Japanese.

    Well, the whole communicative language teaching (CLT) pedagogy would just go down the crapper with that kind of mentality, as would other successful language teaching approaches.

    Communication helps. At the beginning stages of learning any language, you mess up and so does the person next to you. You can at least learn new vocabulary if nothing else. And you can also help someone struggling if you do happen to have amazing language skills.

    I do agree with Pandi about those translations. But those aren't communicative events! There is no real transfer of information going on at all in students' heads, especially with a HS 3 level text about hydroponics and how they can do it too. Who gives a shit.

    Real communicative events (transfer of relevant information) with real people creates a learning environment, native or non-native.

    And this is my arrogant post. Sorry.
    Maybe I just have a different teaching philosophy from others here?

    Put another way, just look at how good a job Japan does teaching English to itself...

    What do you like sports?

    :smt005
    Japan doesn't do a good job teaching English. I will say that. There is no real communication or interaction or negotiation of meaning going on at all; it's all contrived and artificial. It's not communication for the sake of communication and "personal enrichment"; it's all for the entrance exams.

    That's where maybe JETs can help. Maybe. I haven't worked in the Japanese public education system, so I don't know. But being some of the following--the human tape recorder, the "game" guy, the token foreign guy/gal, or the JET who sits doing nothing all day because the JTE doesn't want to use him/her--doesn't help.

    Pairwork does help, native or non-native. Sure, people prefer native speakers, and that's why all those business English schools make bank (except for NOVA of course :P ). But Japan doesn't take a communicative language approach in teaching. It's a translation approach, which is basically shit. So, I agree with you. But maybe JETs can create more instances for JHS/HS students to speak in a natural environment (not only in class but also through after-school clubs, etc.)

    Yet I can't help but think that in a year I will feel a sense of discouragement and frustration with how much I will NOT have been able to do...haha. :?

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsugaruzuki
    遠慮することない、全く。^^ 隣にいる先生はHyakumanさんが日本語を話すこと知らないんですか?
    あー、確かにもっと詳しく説明すればよかったねww
    隣の先生は僕が日本語をしゃべれることが分かってるから、遠慮してしまう。
    僕の方向へいつも見てそうで、パソコンの画面を読んでるかどうか確認できないし...
    まぁ、本当に考えてみると、そんなに悪いことを書かないんだが、
    ワークスペースが結構狭くて、パソコンの画面がよく見えるような気がするので、
    安心できないなぁ(´・ω・`)

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    あー、確かにもっと詳しく説明すればよかったねww
    隣の先生は僕が日本語をしゃべれることが分かってるから、遠慮してしまう。
    僕の方向へいつも見てそうで、パソコンの画面を読んでるかどうか確認できないし...
    まぁ、本当に考えてみると、そんなに悪いことを書かないんだが、
    ワークスペースが結構狭くて、パソコンの画面がよく見えるような気がするので、
    安心できないなぁ(´・ω・`)
    そういうことですか。確かに、自分のプライバシーの侵入のようなもんですね。
    そんな悪いこと書いているわけじゃないですし、いいんじゃないですか?
    逆に「これだけ日本語が喋れるんだから、宇宙人扱いすんな!」というノンバーバルコミュニケーションにもなり兼ねませんよ!^^; 仕事場が狭いんでしょうね、先生たちは。

    実際、教職委員室を覗いてみたことあるんですけど、感想は一つだけ:狭い。狭すぎる。そして、書類がバラバラと散らかっていて、ボクは絶対にそういう環境の中で働きたくないと思いました。

    ・・・とはいっても、今現在ボクのオフィスもそれに似た状態に陥ってるんですけどね。(苦笑) 生徒のレポートがバラバラで、修士論文の取材や授業の教材などまで・・・T.T しょうがない、明日掃除しよう。

  14. #34
    Cool Cutie Fighter! Hyakuman's Avatar
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    さあ...僕がただ文句言ってるみたいだもんねww
    これから、気にせずにもっと日本語を使うようにしますッ!

    ところで、JETの参加者になっておめでとう~♪

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyakuman
    さあ...僕がただ文句言ってるみたいだもんねww
    これから、気にせずにもっと日本語を使うようにしますッ!

    ところで、JETの参加者になっておめでとう~♪
    文句言わずに人は生きていけないよぉー☆ www
    どんどん怒りをぶちまけてこいや!^^
    ああ、日本語力問わずみんなで日本語を使っていけばと思うんですけど、恥ずかしがる人も多いせいか、やはりそんなのは机上の空論にすぎないですね。
    とても残念です。

    ありがとうございます!これからは、日本人の若者たちのために役立つJETになるように心がけます!

  16. #36
    Pandilex
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    日本体操協会は31日、男子新体操の「全国WEB選手権カルピスソーダカップ」の大会概要を発表した。競技の普及などが目的で、評価の対象は演技を撮影したビデオ。審判とは別にインターネット上での一般からの採点による表彰もあり、同協会は「新しい形の競技会」と位置づけている。
     原則6人の団体演技とし、ビデオの募集は4月1日から5月1日まで。その中から8チームのビデオを大会公式サイトで公開する。審判の採点で順位を決めるほか、一般の採点を基に「特別協賛賞」を贈るという。
     男子新体操は今年を最後に国体種目から外されるが、カルピスはこの競技を使ったCMを近く放映する予定。同社は「躍動感、ダイナミックなところが、はじけるおいしさが特徴の商品イメージに合う」としている。

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandilex
    日本体操協会は31日、男子新体操の「全国WEB選手権カルピスソーダカップ」の大会概要を発表した。競技の普及などが目的で、評価の対象は演技を撮影したビデオ。審判とは別にインターネット上での一般からの採点による表彰もあり、同協会は「新しい形の競技会」と位置づけている。
     原則6人の団体演技とし、ビデオの募集は4月1日から5月1日まで。その中から8チームのビデオを大会公式サイトで公開する。審判の採点で順位を決めるほか、一般の採点を基に「特別協賛賞」を贈るという。
     男子新体操は今年を最後に国体種目から外されるが、カルピスはこの競技を使ったCMを近く放映する予定。同社は「躍動感、ダイナミックなところが、はじけるおいしさが特徴の商品イメージに合う」としている。
    ええ?なんで?上に述べた、「演技を撮影したビデオ」でも撮ろうかと思っているんですか?www

  18. #38
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    げっ、まさかPandilexはチームメンバーを募集してるんじゃないかぃ?ww

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyakuman
    げっ、まさかPandilexはチームメンバーを募集してるんじゃないかぃ?ww
    www まさか。だったらボクは完全にアウトですね。運動神経なんてゼロですもん。優勝したら大したもんですけどね♪

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