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Thread: Japanese verb "bases"

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    Senior Member jonesinjapan's Avatar
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    Default Japanese verb "bases"

    I have been studying Japanese on my own since August and I have learned alot of different verbs and sort of know how to put them in the right sentences.

    But every lesson I see talks about Japanese Verb bases, what does the word bases actually mean in this context, I know this sounds kind of dumb but I don't understand when to use base 1 or base three in a conversation or a sentence, I sort of understand the -ta base (a basic for of past tense i think) and the -te form (a command or request form of the verb) but what of bases 1-5?

    Any help with that?
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    Али Димаев AliDimayev's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japanese verb "bases"

    I dont know what base 1,2,3,4,5 refers to.
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    Member Lua's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japanese verb "bases"

    all textbooks teach it *slightly* differently- would you happen to be using the Japanese Step by Step book by Gene Nishi?

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    Али Димаев AliDimayev's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japanese verb "bases"

    Give me an example. Take 'to eat' taberu
    What forms are what
    taberu
    tabemasu
    tabete
    tabeta
    tabe-(tai)
    tabemasen
    tabenai
    tabenakatta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyakuman View Post
    As usual, you all (Aliを除く) have your heads up your asses.

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    Senior Member jonesinjapan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AliDimayev View Post
    Give me an example. Take 'to eat' taberu
    What forms are what
    taberu
    tabemasu
    tabete
    tabeta
    tabe-(tai)
    tabemasen
    tabenai
    tabenakatta
    I understand your forms, if I am remembering correctly, you have the polite and normal forms of the verb but im talking about

    Taberu
    Base 1 - Tabe
    Base 2 - Tabe
    Base 3 - Taberu
    Base 4 - Tabere
    Base 5 - Tabeyoo
    -te form - Tabete
    -ta form - Tabeta

    Right now i am on different websites but I saw this on many different websites and on the Japanese teaching game on the DS
    Last edited by jonesinjapan; December 4th, 2008 at 13:45.
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    Али Димаев AliDimayev's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japanese verb "bases"

    I'm sorry. So what's your question?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyakuman View Post
    As usual, you all (Aliを除く) have your heads up your asses.

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    Али Димаев AliDimayev's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japanese verb "bases"

    te form is tabete
    ta for is tabeta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyakuman View Post
    As usual, you all (Aliを除く) have your heads up your asses.

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    Senior Member jonesinjapan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japanese verb "bases"

    My question is when will you use those forms, like when will I use, Tebere or tabeyoo?
    Superman once wrote on the wall: "Batman is a wimp."
    The next day Batman wrote: "Superman is Clark Kent."

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    Senior Member jonesinjapan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japanese verb "bases"

    or better yet what would be the english equivilant of those forms
    Superman once wrote on the wall: "Batman is a wimp."
    The next day Batman wrote: "Superman is Clark Kent."

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    Default Re: Japanese verb "bases"

    I am not sure what tabere means. If it is suppose to be the command form then it should be tabero, I am pretty sure.

    Tabeyou means let's eat

    So you can say "Tabeyou ka" Shall we eat?
    Or Ikou! "Let's go"

    And so on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyakuman View Post
    As usual, you all (Aliを除く) have your heads up your asses.

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    Default Re: Japanese verb "bases"

    oh, tabere, may be like the (slang) form tabereru "to be able to eat"

    Though, the correct version shoudl be taberareru
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyakuman View Post
    As usual, you all (Aliを除く) have your heads up your asses.

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    Senior Member jonesinjapan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japanese verb "bases"

    ahhh i see, so the -you or -ou form depending on whether its a ichidan or godan verb i assume means "Let's ~"

    That really helps me out thank you,

    this is where I found those verb bases:
    http://oasis.fortunecity.com/labreya...bchart.html#ta
    Superman once wrote on the wall: "Batman is a wimp."
    The next day Batman wrote: "Superman is Clark Kent."

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    Default Re: Japanese verb "bases"

    Base one and two tabe is used when you add on, um, other auxiliary adjectives or verbs

    食べ+たい I want to eat
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyakuman View Post
    As usual, you all (Aliを除く) have your heads up your asses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonesinjapan View Post
    ahhh i see, so the -you or -ou form depending on whether its a ichidan or godan verb i assume means "Let's ~"

    That really helps me out thank you,

    this is where I found those verb bases:
    http://oasis.fortunecity.com/labreya...bchart.html#ta
    yes yes

    会う → 会おう
    食べる → 食べよう
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyakuman View Post
    As usual, you all (Aliを除く) have your heads up your asses.

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    Senior Member ampersand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonesinjapan View Post
    My question is when will you use those forms, like when will I use, Tebere or tabeyoo?
    I didn't learn my Japanese using this jargon, so mine's probably a little off, but I'll try to answer.
    Quote Originally Posted by jonesinjapan View Post
    Taberu
    Base 1 - Tabe
    Base 2 - Tabe
    I forget which is which, but I think the 1st is the mizenkei (imperfective form) and is the base of the negative, the passive, the causitive, and the causitive passive. With a godan-verb this would be the ~a stem. E.g. nomanai, nomareru, nomaseru, nomaserareru. The second is the renyoukei (conjunctive form). This is the stem that makes the ~masu form, compound verbs, and can be used to combine clauses. With a godan verb, this would be ~i: nomimasu, nomisugiru, osake o nomi edamame o tabeta.
    Base 3 - Taberu
    This is the rentaikei (attributive form). It's the affirmative-imperfective form also called the "dictionary form" or the "direct form". It corresponds to the present or future tense (usually) for affirmative English sentences. "[subject] eats or [subject] will eat." It's also the base for the negative imperative (taberuna--"don't eat") and the plain presumptive (taberudarou--"will probably eat").
    Base 4 - Tabere
    This is the izenkai ("realis form"). Its one use is to form the ba-conditional, tabereba--"if [subject] were to eat".
    Base 5 - Tabeyoo
    The base is actually "tabe", and is the meireikei (imperative form). It forms the basis for positive imperatives, tabero and tabeyo. Tabeyou is the desiderative or volitional and *one* of its uses is as a sort of "Let's ~". I forget what base that's formed from. It's identical to the ~masu stem (with you added) for vowel-stems and to the ~masu stem minus i (with ou added) for consonant stems.
    -te form - Tabete
    Best just thought of as the te form. It can be used to join clauses, to link a verb to another verb or another word. By itself, it's a polite informal request, but only because that's a contraction of the te form plus a verbal of giving (tabete kudasai, tabete kureru?) which in turn is how one contructs the do something for someone meaning.
    -ta form - Tabeta
    The simple perfective. Usually corresponds to the past tense in an affirmative sentence in English.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonesinjapan View Post
    or better yet what would be the english equivilant of those forms
    This is a dangerous way to go, filled with many pitfalls. You can give English equivalents when it's in a sentence with context. Otherwise, there can be many or no close English equivalent.
    Last edited by ampersand; December 4th, 2008 at 14:37.

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    Senior Member Rin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonesinjapan View Post
    I have been studying Japanese on my own since August and I have learned alot of different verbs and sort of know how to put them in the right sentences.

    But every lesson I see talks about Japanese Verb bases, what does the word bases actually mean in this context, I know this sounds kind of dumb but I don't understand when to use base 1 or base three in a conversation or a sentence, I sort of understand the -ta base (a basic for of past tense i think) and the -te form (a command or request form of the verb) but what of bases 1-5?

    Any help with that?
    Watashi wa ringo o taberu. - I eat apples / I will eat an apple.
    Watashi wa ringo o tabemasu. - I eat apples / I will eat an apple.

    Watashi wa ringo o tabenai. - I don't eat apples / I won't eat an apple.
    Watashi wa ringo o tabemasen. - I do not eat apples / I will not eat an apple.

    Watashi wa ringo o tabeta. - I ate an apple.
    Watashi wa ringo o tabemashita. - I ate an apple.

    Watashi wa ringo o tabete iru. - I am eating an apple.
    Watashi wa ringo o tabete imasu. - I am eating an apple.

    Ringo o tabeyou. - Let's eat an apple.
    Ringo o tabemashou. - Let's eat an apple.

    Watashi wa ringo o taberareru. - I can eat apples.
    Watashi wa ringo o taberaremasu. - I can eat apples.

    Ringo o tabesasete kudasai. - Please let me eat an apple.

    Watashi wa (dareka) ni ringo o tabesaserareru. - I am made to eat apples.
    Watashi wa (dareka) ni ringo o tabesaserarete kureru. - I am allowed to eat apples.

    Ringo wa watashi ni taberareta. - The apple was eaten by me.

    Ringo o tabero. - Eat the apple.

    Ringo o tabetai. - I want to eat an apple.

    . . . and so on . . .
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    Senior Member ampersand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ampersand View Post
    Tabeyou is the desiderative or volitional and *one* of its uses is as a sort of "Let's ~". I forget what base that's formed from.
    After some checking, it seems that this form is considered to be based on the mizenkei like the negative and passive. This is clearer when you read older stuff where it's still written ~(y)au (e.g. 食べやう and 飲まう), though it would still be read as ~(y)ou in modern Japanese. You see this sort of thing in writing from before World War 2.

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    Senior Member jonesinjapan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japanese verb "bases"

    Wow thank you very much all of you that really does but it in perspective, about how to use these verbs.

    I know this is going to and will help me in the long run but I really need to find a Japanese teacher though
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    The next day Batman wrote: "Superman is Clark Kent."

  19. #19
    Senior Member Rin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japanese verb "bases"

    Ta/Te-forms of the different types of verbs:

    i-ru/e-ru (with some exceptions)
    ita/ite
    eta/ete

    a-ru/u-ru/o-ru
    atta/atte
    utta/utte
    otta/otte

    -tsu/-u
    -tta/-tte

    -ku (with an exception for iku, which is itta/itte)
    -ita/-ite

    -gu
    -ida/-ide

    -mu/-nu/-bu
    -nda/-nde

    -----

    Nai-forms of the different types of verbs:

    i-ru/e-ru (with some exceptions)
    inai
    enai

    a-ru/u-ru/o-ru
    aranai
    uranai
    oranai

    -tsu
    -tanai

    -u
    -wanai

    -ku
    -kanai

    -gu
    -ganai

    -mu
    -manai

    -nu
    -nanai

    -bu
    -banai
    Last edited by Rin; December 4th, 2008 at 15:16.
    教育を要らない
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    Quote Originally Posted by dombay View Post
    3 years later - it aint culture shock. Japan's just got its priorities wrong here.

  20. #20
    Senior Member ampersand's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japanese verb "bases"

    And just to show the trouble that learning Japanese verb forms via their English equivalents can lead to, I give you the following.

    [watashi wa] ringo o taberu mae ni, nashi o tabeta. - Before I ate an apple, I ate a pear.
    [watashi wa] nashi wo tabeta ato ni, ringo o taberu. - After I eat a pear, I will eat an apple.

    This is a pretty straightforward example, but at least try to think "X in Japanese often means Y in English, but sometimes it doesn't" instead of "X in Japanese is Y in English."
    Last edited by ampersand; December 4th, 2008 at 15:15. Reason: sillyness

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