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Thread: Japanese begining question

  1. #1
    Senior Member jonesinjapan's Avatar
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    Default Japanese begining question

    I started going to Japanese classes as I told myself to do for my New Years Resolution, and basically jumped into a pretty advanced class. I understood a bit of it which made me feel pretty good about being self taught basically. But I was confused about this huge discussion they were having about Hajimeru and Hajimaru.

    Now I am only assuming this so please correct me and laugh at my mistakes but is hajimaru used for things like:

    I will start the class.

    And Hajimeru

    The class begins.

    Thankfully the teacher saw my dead fish eyes when the discussion started and I will have my own free private japanese teacher starting next week.
    Superman once wrote on the wall: "Batman is a wimp."
    The next day Batman wrote: "Superman is Clark Kent."

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    Default Re: Japanese begining question

    Haha I read through this and went 'nice story...wait what was the question?'

    It's the difference between transitive and intransitive verbs. In Japanese they have more pairs of these words, whereas in English we use the same form for transitive/intransitive verbs much of the time.

    Let's look at a different pair of verbs: おちる and おとす (fall and drop, respectively)

    ボールがおちた。
    The ball fell. (OR The ball dropped.)

    ボールをおとした。
    I dropped the ball.

    In the first case the verb is intransitive. There is no object of the action. In the second sentence, the verb is transitive, and requires an object.

    So in your example you'd have

    クラスを始める。
    I will start the class.

    クラスが始まる。
    The class starts.

    Is that a little clearer? There's a lot of pages on this for Japanese/English so just google transitive/intransitive Japanese and you should be able to find some stuff on it.
    Last edited by katsudon; January 14th, 2009 at 13:35. Reason: indeed, the hajimeru/maru pair was backwards.

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    Али Димаев AliDimayev's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japanese begining question

    Isn:t hajiMAru the intransitive one? Kurasu ga hajimarimasu.
    <a href=http://www.ithinkimlost.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=3134&dateline=1245615339 target=_blank>http://www.ithinkimlost.com/image.ph...ine=1245615339</a>
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyakuman View Post
    As usual, you all (Aliを除く) have your heads up your asses.

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    Али Димаев AliDimayev's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japanese begining question

    Doa wo shimemasu.
    Doa ga shimarimasu.
    <a href=http://www.ithinkimlost.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=3134&dateline=1245615339 target=_blank>http://www.ithinkimlost.com/image.ph...ine=1245615339</a>
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyakuman View Post
    As usual, you all (Aliを除く) have your heads up your asses.

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    SPACE MONKEY MAFIA vdog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japanese begining question

    I do believe Ali is correct. But for many (but definitely not all) other verbal pairs the "~eru" one is the intransitive

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    Default Re: Japanese begining question

    http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/ti_list.html
    Here's an extensive list of trans/intrans verb pairs

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    SPACE MONKEY MAFIA vdog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japanese begining question

    The one that always confuses me is ireru and hairu. I hate how entering a room is instransitive (hairu).

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    Senior Member jonesinjapan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japanese begining question

    ahhhh! I see now if only they told me transitive and intransitive I would have been a little better off, but yeah your right ali I had those two switched!
    Superman once wrote on the wall: "Batman is a wimp."
    The next day Batman wrote: "Superman is Clark Kent."

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    Default Re: Japanese begining question

    Are they japanese speakers? They probably didn't know the grammatical terminology.

    Transitive verb - 他動詞 たどうし Intransitive verb - 自動詞 じどうし

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    SPACE MONKEY MAFIA vdog's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by katsudon View Post
    Are they japanese speakers? They probably didn't know the grammatical terminology.

    Transitive verb - 他動詞 たどうし Intransitive verb - 自動詞 じどうし
    Ahh! You are bringing back horrible memories of summer Japanese!

  11. #11
    Senior Member jonesinjapan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japanese begining question

    Well initially the class was meant for Chinese speakers learning Japanese (Im so deep in the Inaka I have to take what I can get) so I was planning on some language difficulties but fortunatly enough the Head Japanese teacher knows a bit of english to help me in the class, but she told me she has a friend that will be willing to help me in that class for now on that knows a good amount of english.

    Thanks for the translation though, now I kind wish I had Japanese classes back in College...
    Superman once wrote on the wall: "Batman is a wimp."
    The next day Batman wrote: "Superman is Clark Kent."

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    Senior Member Mr. Plainview's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vdogvictor View Post
    The one that always confuses me is ireru and hairu. I hate how entering a room is instransitive (hairu).
    for that one, just think hairu as enter and ireru as put. i never confuse them because i wouldn't "put" myself in a room or "enter" a coin into a box.

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    Али Димаев AliDimayev's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jonesinjapan View Post

    Thanks for the translation though, now I kind wish I had Japanese classes back in College...
    with the weebloes?
    <a href=http://www.ithinkimlost.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=3134&dateline=1245615339 target=_blank>http://www.ithinkimlost.com/image.ph...ine=1245615339</a>
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyakuman View Post
    As usual, you all (Aliを除く) have your heads up your asses.

  14. #14
    Senior Member jonesinjapan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Japanese begining question

    Well I would have done a little more than trying to translate Animes or remembering words from my favorite anime opening song.
    Superman once wrote on the wall: "Batman is a wimp."
    The next day Batman wrote: "Superman is Clark Kent."

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